Lizard Rumors

[skyth]

Lizardmen army book rumours Thanks to Sylass from warseer.

The book is supposedly out in febuary 9th 2009. It is not known who is writing it.


New models:
- plastic Temple Guard, 10 per box, £12 / $25
- plastic Stegadon, 1 per box with options for all three variants, $40
- metal Kroxigor, 1 model per blister, $20
- metal Terradons, 1 model per blister, $17
- Barbed Razordon Hunting Party $25
- Scar Veteran wity army standard $15
- Tiktaq'To, Master of Skies $17
- Chakax, Eternity Warden $15


Blessed Spawnings
These seem to take on a bigger role in the list. It is not know how they will work, if taking them makes a unit more scarce or if it will be like Marks of Chaos in that it's just an upgrade and doesn't change if a unit is Core, Special or Rare.

Spawning of Huanchi: +1 WS and move through cover with no penalty
Spawning of Sotek:
Spawning of Chotec:
Spawning of Quetzl:
Spawning of Tlazcotl:
Spawning of Tepok:
Spawning of Tzunki:


Army-wide special rule - Cold-blooded
Rumoured to change significantly, though this is still unconfirmed. Supposedly they roll the same number of dice as everyone else for Ld tests (i.e. 2), but any double counts as Insane Courage and will be an auto-pass regardless of any other factors (modifiers, outnumbered by Fear, etc.).


Lore of the Old Ones
- Slanns only
- spells all of the high cost / high effect type


Magic items
Charm of the Jaguar Warrior is dropped




Lords

Slann
- speculated to get a spell lore of their own

Saurus Oldblood
- may be mounted on a Stegadon


Heroes

Saurus Scar-Veteran
- may be mounted on a Stegadon

Skink Chief
- may be mounted on a Stegadon

Skink Priest
- may be mounted on an Engine of the Gods


Character mounts

Engine of the Gods (Skink Priest only)
- if it is anything like it was in the Lustria book it is a weaker Stegadon with a war machine-like weapon on top
- takes up an additional Hero choice

Stegadon
- any(?) character may ride a Stegadon
- takes up an additional Hero choice



Core
There is much speculation on whether there will be additional core units (ranked skinks or skink fast cavalry), though nothing confirmed

Saurus Warriors
- 1 or 2 pts cheaper
- scaly skin save is rumoured to be going back to 5+, like it was in 5th edition

Skink Skirmishers
- can get Spawnings

Temple Guard
- cheaper
- can get Spawnings

Jungle Swarms


Special

Saurus Cavalry
- 4 pts cheaper
- can get Spawnings

Kroxigor
- new set of metal models (was rumoured to be plastic, but that appears to have been wrong)
- get light armour in addition to their scaly skin
- can get Spawnings

Stegadon
- new plastic model
- moved from Rare to Special

Terradons
- new (metal) models

Cameleon Skinks

Salamander Hunting Packs
- moved from Rare to Special
- now use the breath weapon template instead of the artillery dice
- stats of the attack not known
- not known whether you can still form units of more than one pack (having a monsters and handlers unit with multiple monsters is a bit tricky ruleswise) or if you might, say, get 1-2 independant packs per Special unit


Rare

Ancient Stegadon
- somewhat altered stats compared to the regular Steggy
- has a different weapon than the bolt thrower the normal Steggy has

Barbed Razordon Hunting Party
- a new kind of dinosaur unit, also herded by skinks
- fires spikes that has a number of shots equal to the roll on an artillery dice, that roll to his using BS 4, not known if it ingores any of the normal to-hit modifiers
- when standing and shooting it gets two artillery dice worth of shots


Special characters

Lord Kroak (Slann)

Kroq-Gar (Saurus Lord)

Nakai the Wanderer (Kroxigor Hero(?))

Tenehauin (Skink Lord/Hero)

Tiktaq'To, Master of Skies (some kind of Skink on Terradon?)

Chakax, Eternity Warden (some kind of Saurus Temple Guard character?)


2 more unknown characters.



Rumoured rules
Often talked about are:
- Spawnings becoming more widespread and available to more units (like in the Sacred Spawning variant lists)
- Ranked Skink units (like in the Lustria book) and possibly with Kroxigors added (like in 5th edition)
- Skink Horned One Riders (like in the Lustria book)
- a separate Lore for Slann
- more mount options for Skink characters (like in 5th edition)

[skyth]

And here are another set-

Army wide rule:
Jungle Fighter: All models move through jungle, woods, and forest as open ground and do not suffer any penalty. (Excluding Mounts)

Spawnings:

There are no changes for Chotec rule

Sotek:
For units: They get +1 A on the turn they charge.
For Characters: Frenzy (still have to take test for Stupidity)

Xthol: 5+ ward, in addition, If:
For units: they use this mark during the battle phase, then they can choose only one Save "Scaly skin or this"
For characters: If they cannot save a wound, then any enemy models that attacks the character with this mark take S4 hit on a D6
Limited to; Saurus Warriors, Temple guards, Skinks (skirmesher/cohorts) and Saurus Calvary.

Tlazcotl: this you take this mark:
Units: Immune to Psychology (still suffer from stupidity and frenzy)
Characters: Does not need to take any events that requires a Ld test (including stupidity or frenzy) and are stubborn in battle
Limited to: Saururs Warriors, Skinks(Cohorts/skrimeshers/Calvary), Temple Guards, Kroxigors, and Saurus Calvary.

Tzunki: +1 I in addition, If:
For units: They become aquatic and doesn't suffer any penelty for walking on water.
For characters: They become aquatic and have First strike rules Confirmed
Limited to; Saurus Warriors, Temple guards, Skinks (skirmesher), and Kroxigors.

Huanchi: +1 WS and move thourgh terrains with no penelty
Limited to; Saurus Warriors, Temple guards, Skinks (skirmesher/cohorts), Saurus Calvary, and Kroxigors.
Note: you cannot take up the same blessed mark in the same unit.

Ruling of how blessed mark is taken:
Not all units can they up to two, for some they can up to one (i.e Saurus Calvary) while other can take up to three (unknown). If they take one, they stay as core/special. If they take up two, they move to special/rare.

Lore of the Old ones and goemancey returns.

Lizardmen Army updates:

*cold blooded rule remains the same

*Slann now cause fear, but points remains the same.

*Jungle fighters: All models can move through jungle, wood, and forest as open grounds (Excluding mounts) and do not suffer any penelty. This is confirmed

*Temple guards will be cheaper by 2 points and become plastic, but by doing this, they going back to being special (With slann on the field, they become cores). Better options (blessed mark, carry shields without paying for them, light armour) and still able to carry magic banner confirmed.

*Skink will have th option of cohorts or skrimisher, will have "hate skeven", able to mount on horn ones once again (in that case, they will have Heavy Spear (treated as a lance), light armour and sheild). carry blessed mark and will have the option of kroxigor/skinks skirmisher as a unit. Red crest is now an option. This is confirmed

*Skink preist and Skink Chief will have the option of blessed mark (including Itzl), have the option on mounts (terradon, horn ones, or stegadon) confirmed.

*Predetory fighter: front rank gets +1 A while the second rows lose one attack. Confirmed

*Saurus warrior are confirmed to be 10 pts per model and can carry magic banner as well as blessed marks and now has a WS4. Confirmed

*Kroxigors will able to recieve blessed mark and a command set. Confimred

*Arcanodaon and the Engine of the gods confirmed.

*As we speak, blessed marks are going to be more widespread then before; however, there are SOME blessed mark left undone, so there are three more left (xhoal is confirmed while the ability to regenerate is still unconfirm). Each blessed mark has its other effect to the army.

*Salamanders don't suffer move or shoot, but still suffer stand and shoot when being charged.

Characters:

Nakai the wonderer: confirmed
Oxayotl the first Chameleon skink: confirmed
Tehenhauin: Stats redone little and is confirmed
Ten-Zlati: Confirmed
Lord Mazdamundi: confirmed
Kroq-gar: Stats redone alittle
Lord Kroak: Stats redone mostly (Note: he will be cheaper then before because he will no longer take up rare slot anymore. GW felt that he's not going anywhere since he is too exspensive in points) Confirmed

[johnboo]

thanks!

Ive been keeping an eye on LM rumors for a while.

I'd be wary of lots of "confirmed" stuff in your second post, especially the marks doing different/additional things between units & characters.

If all that stuff gets moved to special slots, LM players will have to make seriously difficult choices, especially if marking saurus units move them up a rarity slot.

The rumored new cold blooded rule is waaay worse than the current one, in my opinion. Hopefully the LD values will be adjusted back up to 5th ed book levels if this rumor holds true.

[Krusty (zack)]

ya im pretty excited for this as well...
saurus finally gunna be a viable unit again...

really hope cold blooded stays how it is

[skyth]

I kind of like the doubles is insane courage...Makes them better vs fear causing armies...And helps me to remember how many dice to throw (Only rolling 2 dice for my Empire feels weird )

One thing about the rumors that I like, is that taking one Mark doesn't move things up a rarity slot. All depends on pricing, etc.

I did notice that some of the things contradicted each other and other things I've heard. Take all the rumors with a chunk of salt

[johnboo]

Oct 27, 2008 16:00:13 GMT -5 skyth said:

I kind of like the doubles is insane courage...Makes them better vs fear causing armies...

Good point. I hadn't though of that - though it still is worse in every other situation.

I find saurus pretty kicka$$ troops as they are. 2 ST4 attacks and T4 on a core unit? Now cheaper? Yes please!

Apparently, Slann are really going to be the true masters of magic. I heard they will make Kairos Fateweaver look like a novice.

I hope the horned ones do make an appearance in the new book. I love those models and really want to use them.

[skyth]

Not looking forward to rolling skink leadership on 2 dice though...

[dwarfpower]

im no lizard expert but the -4 points on cold one saurus sure seems like it would make them a lot more usuable

[skyth]

More rumors from Polish PGA...

Greetings!

Just came back from Poznan Game Arena.
Had a quick chat with some folks from GW as well as look at the new Lizardmen Armybook and miniatures.

I took a picture of the new models but as I learned later nobody was allowed to take any photos, so il post them after the ban is banned couse I dont want the guys at the GW booth to get in trouble.

Seeing the minis up close and personal I must say they are really nice.
The Razordon is great. It looks like salamander with spikes, but the head is actually Reptile like rather than the awfull heads of the current Salamanders. The minis are also very agressive looking.

The Temple Guard Plastics are fantastic. The only minus for me is that they aren't any bigger or beefier than the standard saurus. Il will simply put the plastic TG elements on the metal ones bodies to fix that problem and for more variety. But the models are really good anyway.

As for the Terradons: When I first saw the sneek peak of them in the roumor roundup section I was really disappointed. They looked, goofy, skinny and cartoony for me. But the photos in the armybook made form diffrent angles totaly changed my opinion of them. They are really rather good They are agressive and muscled. This actually makes them look less like a real pterosaurus and more like and exagerated fantasy dino but thats the point here some could argue. They reminded me of the flying monsters in the first Ridthingy movie

Kroxigors. Though I believe they look far from what they could have looked like but still they are better then the two previous versions.

The Stegadon. All of You have seen it. I can only say that this beast is the showcase of GW plastic technology. The sheer amount of stuff and bling that You can put on its back is outrageous. The frames are teeming with parts.
They are also fantastically detailed for a plastic kit. The Skink Shamans could easily make for a metal mini if You painted them.

By the way, now that iv seen the GW minis in person I must say my respect for the skill of the 'Eavy Metal team has grown considerably.
The level of the painting was better than half of the Golden Deamon entries here(which according to the GW folks had the highest standard this year).
GW should really work to make their promotional photos show the paint job more accuratly.

The Armybook counts 104 pages. The artwork is at the usual high level.
I had a very brief contact with the book so the list of changes is of course far from complete.
The rumour about the Slann getting their own lore were a bit inaccurate.
Its not a magic lore but rather a list of special upgrades and abbilities.
The Slann comes with one of such powers by default for no points. You can upgrade the Slann further by getting him more abbilities for points.
I didn't look at the effects of the various powers, but basically they boost the prowess of the Slann considerably.

The Saurus Warriors are going down in cost by either one or two point iam not sure which. Anyway they are cheaper.
Their scaly skin is now indeed 5+.
Also the "Predatory Fighters" rule is gone.
However the biggest change was done to the sacred spawnings, basically.................THERE ARE NO SPAWNINGS.......there, I said it...
The special characters in the book(and there are quite a lot of them) will act as generators of sacred spawning like powers for the army. This means that GW will follow the trend of SC influencing and character flavouring the whole army like in the Space Marines Codex. This is done so that tournament armies are as fair and competitive as possible, while retaining some modicum of character. If You want to play with Your friends though then You can use whatever rules You like.

Skinks are now cheaper and have higher LD.

Cold One Riders are cheaper. Also i wouldn't expect GW to redo the models for them since all the new artwork in the book shows Saurus riding the Lustria Campagin CO.

Kroxigors can indeed form units with skinks like in 5 ed.

All the list of special characters in the book that were circulating around the web so far have been wrong. Kroak, Mazdamundi, Kroq-Gar, Tenehauhin, Tictac Toe and Eternity Warden are inndeed there but so are several SC that I never heard about before.


So thats basically it. Also tommorow there will be second part of the PGA so i might get more info.
__________________
Your are dealing with a non-english speaker so please bear with me.

[skyth]

Follow up:

Well I had another glipmse at the book.
Unfortunately it was only a glimpse. While i stared paging it I got a phone call that there was an accident at home and i had to bail out of there.
Sorry guys.

Here's what i managed to learn. Its not much but still...

Lets start with the bad news: Apperently there was a misunderstanding yesterday regarding the spawnings. There are no spawnings at all. Not even with the SC. Yesterday the man from GW said that instead of Sacred Spawnings as an upgrade option for units we will get special powers from the special characters. But today the other GW representative correctted that. Apparently the SC do not provide any spawning effects. What they do have are standard diffrent special rules that SC had in warhammer over the years. So some of them may have something that will affect a whole unit but it doesnt necessarily have to do anything with the spawnings. Other SC have only special rules that affect themselfs. In other words lizardmen special characters arent in any way diffrent then what SC in warhammer always used to be. Although some of them have rules that are connected with the spawnings via their Fluff and background like Kroq-Gar who allows You to field one regiment of Cold One Raiders as Core units.
Before we hear an outcry of rage over this please consider that its not really that big a deal. Spawnings always considered only Saurus and they are now better then ever with the point drop, full 2 attacks no matter the weapon and 5+ save(which is basicaly the spawning of quetzl one of the few if not the only one worth taking in the first place). Its not like they erased the spawnigs from Fluff. I dont like it either but its not a tragedy.

Next: Slann Powers.

Basic Slann comes at 275p. i think
They are level 4 wizards and can choose any of the Warhammer Lores.
The basic Slann also automatically comes with one "Power" for free. It can be any one of Your choice.
You can buy a maximum of 4 additional powers so a Slann can have a total of 5.
What is interesting is that apparently all the powers are equaly valued since You don't pay individal point cost for each of the powers. There is simply: X point for one additional power 2X ponts for two etc.
Here are the powers effect that I memorised:
1 - The Slann adds on free power dice to each casting attempt he makes. This dice doesn't come from the player power dice pool and is in fact "free". It can cause miscast and Irresistable Force as normal.
This basically is the same boost that Slann of the 2 gen. had. Its extremely powerfull and changes Your Mage into something to be reconed with in the magic phase. But unlike the expensive Slanns of the 2nd. generation in the previous book You can now get this abbility as the "free starting power" which means that You can have a magic phase powerhouse for 275p.

2 - The Slann can re-roll all miscast results.
3 - The Slann has the "regenaration" special rule
4 - The Slann can choose one lore from WHB rule book and he will know all 6 spells from that lore
5 - The Slann causes "Terror"
6 - The Slann is...and iam not exactly sure on this one....either immune to mundane attacks or magical attacks. Though i would go for the second option since it makes more sense.

As for the other SC i only had a quick qlimpse through them sorry.
Characters in the book that i remebered:
Mazdamundi
Kroak
Kroq-Gar
Oxyloat
Tictaktoe (...)
Eternity Warden
Some astromancer skink character
And a blessed albino Saurus Scar Veteran SC.
Och and there is no Nakai(the roumors about him might oryginated from that a Scar Veteran character since they are both albino)

I was suprised to see that Kroq-Gar is the most expensive of the SC at a whooping 635 points.
Mazdamundi cost 620 and Kroak 600.

Mazdamundi can casts spell with unlimited number of dices and the "ruination of cities" spell has been now given to him which seems proper considering his fluff. I didin't read through his rules so he might have some other abbilities than that plus magic items of course.

Eternity wardern influences the TG units he joins somehow.

The albino Saurus has some kind of "resilient" special rule.

Salamanders fire using breath templates but the template is placed by artillery roll of inches from their snouts.

Razordons have the same statline as Salamanders(which is good) but i didn't get to read their special rules.

Ancient Stegadon has 6 Str. but lowerd I and A by one point.

Carnosaur is now Str. 7

Terradons can now drop rocks similarly to the 5 ed.
They also have a new special rule representing the fact that they not only soar the clear sky like other flyers but also hunt under the Lustrian canopy. Becouse of that the have they can move through forest terrain with no penalty.


Thats all I got guys sorry. But nothing I could have done about unfortunately

[skyth]

And latest:

First of all, I would like to say hello to everybody.
I've been guest-reading this forum for over a year now, and finally decided to create an account and become a part of the community.

Having that said I'll go straight to the juicy part: Browsing through the web I managed to find a polish warhammer fantasy forum with more news rumours from PGA. I decided I will share the knowledge found over there with you guys.
[just to make it clear - all the stuff written below is just a translation of posts written by people claiming to have read the book - hope they won't get mad for translating their rumours wihtout asking them first ]


All the rumours by theultimateqpa have been confirmed on that polish forum. The other stuff mentioned there looks as follows:

Cold-Blooded rule stays as it is now.

LORDS
Slann - T4, W5, 4+ WardSave, US3; can miscast as normal; cannot mix lores anymore; lost +1 to cast and dispell; max 4 abilities chosen from the list - first for free, all 4 for 150 points (I'm guessing 0+25+50+75) - theultimateqpa skipped 1 ability - MR(3)

Old Blood - stats remain the same; no spawnings; AS 4+; may ride Carnosaur (S7, T5, W5, not a large target

HEROES
Scar Veteran - +1T, 5+ AS, same points

Skink Hero and Priest - may ride terradon and both versions of Stegadon (Priest on the Engine gets +1 power dice)

CORE
Skink - rank&file, 5 points, javelin and shield, have command group, Ld 6, 1 kroxigor (55pts) per 8 skinks; may skirmish for +2p (blowpipe)

Saurus - scaly skin 5+

Swarm - posion, 15 pts cheaper

SPECIAL
Cold One Riders - 2+ AS, same points

Kroxigor - S4, 4+ AS, 55 pts, no skirmish screen

Chameleons - 3 pts cheaper, no special deployment

Terradons - mount S4, rider S3 (javelin only), may fly into woods; throw rocks - once per game D3 S4 hits per model

Stegadon - S5, T6, A4, Ld6, 4+ AS, D6+1 impact hits; may have big blowpipe (12", 2D6 S3 auto or no modifiers hits), giant bow with poison

Temple Guard - may have 2+ AS, stubborn and ItP with Slann, WS4, halberds, 1 point cheaper


RARE
Ancient Stegadon - S6, A3, 2+ AS; may have 2 blowpipes but no bow

Engine of the Gods - gives powers like cauldron of blood: 5+ward for friendly units within 12", or D6 S4 hits with no AS to enemies in 2D6", reducing spell difficulty and something more

Salamander - probably move or fire (conflicting rumours on that), flame template shot at artillery dice inches, S3 -3AS, 55 pts

Razodon - same as salamanders, but: may move and fire, shoot artillery dice of S4 hits within 12", need to roll to hit (BS3), but no modifiers for long range, being charged, moving or multiple shots; have to choose S&S as charge reaction, 56 pts

Heroes cannot join salamanders nor razodons, but handlers do not line into combat.


MAGIC ITEMS
Weapons:
Lance for skink - gives stegadon 2D6+2 impact hits
blade of realities
ASF
S6 no AS

Armour: very similar and cheaper

Talismans: 5+ward, 2+ward one use, no 4+ward

Enchanted Items:
flying for skink
jaguar charm - bound spell steed of shadows
25 pts bound spell with uranos thunderbolt at level 6
some magic attacks

Arcane: diadem, +1 spell

Banners:
100pts - 12" stubborn for cavalry
-1 to hit for shooting
huanchi probably the same (or giving +D6" to charge - no consent on that)


Hope this clarifies some things.
Once again, all this information was found here: forum.wfb-pol.org/. I did not see the new book, I just translated some rumours, so don't ask me too many questions
I will try to translate some more stuff if I find any.

Cheers!

[skyth]

All in all, I'm not too excited by the latest batch of rumors *shrugs* Definitely a big change in how the army works.

[johnboo]

It's a mixed bag, for sure, but I'm pretty optimistic anyway.

The slann REALLY got kicked square in the kiwis. T4??? Assuming he stays a large target, that 4+ ward better be for all attacks, not just shooting. Though with the free casting die thats some serious casting power without even adding any magic items.

Krox & skink units were one of my all time units, I'm glad they are back. Especially if the opponent cant attack the krox in the second rank! ;D

Skinks screen gone is fine by me - stupid skinks always paniced my krox anyway.

If saurus have base 2 attacks now (not sure since predatory fighter is gone) it would be pure suicide to charge a unit with spears.

Hard to tell form this list if the salamanders & razordons can still be bought in "packs" (1-3 sallies). I assume so, but it would suck if you couldnt. But if you can - 3 flame templates to the opponent's face at -3 save sounds like a party to me!

Terradons flying through woods is an AMAZING ability. Add in the return of the rock-drop and this unit just might bust up a fully ranked unit with ease.

I'm looking forward to a wider variety of useful magic items.

[skyth]

I figured you're like the Kroxi/Skink thing. My fear is that they won't be able to strike from the second rank, and if you put them in skirmishers, they'll never be able to attack.

[Krusty (zack)]

im sure that they will have rules insuring the krox will get to attack...

im pretty excited that im not gunna have to spend up to $100 for a decent sized temple guard unit now...
also the plastic stego is pretty awesome...
looking at the pictures of the sprues they have on warseer, looks like loads of quality conversion material

kinda ass that sallies cant move and shoot though