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Post by fishboy on Nov 16, 2010 21:41:24 GMT -5
Here is the list I plan on building initially. Next I will do a fast list involving hellions, jet bickes and the bombers. This Haemoculi list is going to be fun because the door is wide open for conversions and such. I am expecting the Talos and Chronos models but I am betting Grotesques do not get anything non-forgeworld related so I am starting with them.
DE Haemonculus List 1999 Total Points
HQ 400
Urien Rakarth 190
Haemonculus 50 120 Shattershard 15 Webway Port 35 EC Whip 20
Haemonculus 50 90 Soul Trap 10 EC Whip 20 Liquifier 10
FAST 274
Scourges (5) 110 137 Blaster 15 Heat Lance 12
Scourges(5) 110 137 Blaster 15 Heat Lance 12
ELITE 230
Grotesques(4) 140 230 Aberation 10 Raider 60 Torment nade 5 Flicker field 10 Retro Rockets 5
TROOPS 765
Wrack (10) 100 130 Liquifier Gun 10 Acothyst 10 Hex Rifle 10
Wrack (9) 90 210 Liquifier gun 10 Acothyst 10 Flesh Gauntlet 20 Raider 60 Shock Prow 5 Retro Fire 5 Flicker Field 10
Wrack (9) 90 215 Liquifier gun 10 Acothyst 10 Agoniser 20 Raider 60 Shock Prow 5 Torment Nade 5 Retro Fire 5 Flicker Field 10
Wrack (10) 100 210 Liquifier gun 10 Acothyst 10 Scissorhand 15 Raider 60 Retro Fire 5 Flicker Field 10
HEAVY 330
Talos 100 115 Ichor 5 Chains 10
Talos 100 115 Ichor 5 TL Heat lance 10
Chronos 80 100 Spirit Vortex 20
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 16, 2010 22:16:08 GMT -5
Looks fun. I love the possibilities of WWP's. May want to consider working in a second portal for flexibility of deployment and to help mitigate one WWP carried being focus fired down on t1.
Can't wait to see how you paint them up.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Nov 17, 2010 11:53:57 GMT -5
Just a comment. This is very similar to the lists I have been seening pop up all over other forums. Seems to be the popular power army.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 17, 2010 12:17:31 GMT -5
Just a comment. This is very similar to the lists I have been seening pop up all over other forums. Seems to be the popular power army. You're joking right? 4 raiders starting on the table shouldn't survive turn 1 against any army except maybe daemons. No bonus to reserves and DEMC's aren't fleet so run away from the WWP. I read just about every forum and blog out there and I haven't seen anything like this being called "power army". Most of those lists have a lot more than 4 raiders. More like 6 raiders 3 venoms and 3 ravagers.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Nov 17, 2010 13:15:46 GMT -5
Actually no im not joking, but thank you for insinuating that.
First off please note I said 'similar'
The lists ive seen have all Haemcoculus for HQs with liquifiers. Lots of wracks as troops becuase they are tough and str 4, with thier great liquifier guns. You could also add the grotesques in if you want a diffrent unit but they are more expensive and take up more room in a raider. They come with FNP and add a Haemoc or two and they have FC and Fearless if you so whished. Raiders get you there fast so you can melt them x2 with your liquifiers which will be ap 1-3 half the time. Flicker fields help with survivability if terrain doesnt or you dont want to zoom for that 4+ save.
They heavy supports are where the list really differ though, they took ravagers instead of the pain engines. But eh, you have enough dark lances to deal with a fair amount of armor.
And Aaron apparently you have not read the forums I have or perhaps you missed the posts. I have seen them on DakkaDakka, warseer and now here. Perhaps they were labled "competitive" and not power army. oops, my bad.
Anyways, I made a comment and said -similar-. Good luck with your list.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 17, 2010 14:13:49 GMT -5
Lol oh man...
Ok so he has haemis, raiders, and wracks so that makes his list similar to power lists? Haemis are one of three generic hq's and wracks are one of three troop options available. So it would be like saying a space wolf player brining rune priests and grey hunters is similar to a wolf power list?
I know what everything does, I bought the codex. 4 dark lances is enough to deal with armor? Lol none of them will make it past turn 2 on an av10 open topped skimmer.
No trueborn, no ravagers or fighters, no beasts or reavers. This list falls way over on the fluffy bunny side of the divide and if someone told me it was power or competitive I would laugh.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Nov 17, 2010 14:29:37 GMT -5
Im happy for you that you bought the codex. I would sugget you reread some of it...no, no...that would not help either. You seem to forget that I said I would like you to take note of the part where I said; 'similar' and 'that I have seen on other forums'. Often they were titled "competitive DE list" or similar, competitive in many ways can be contrued as power army. I did not make these lists, I observed them coming up through my searching. I may not have the extesive time available to search every single forum or blog, nor do I care to do so. I am just placing the comment out there for Fishboy to use as he sees fit.THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FLUFF OR COMP. It was not for you to place judgement on me for reciting an -observation- I had. Nor is your drivvel welcome. Please take time to engage brain opening mouth. Some days, I wonder why I even bother posting when sh!t like this happneds time and time again. People need to stop waving thier epeens around becuase they think thier toy soldiers are better than others. I see now why people are saying they rather not post here due to certain individuals. Case and point.
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Post by fett14622 on Nov 17, 2010 14:52:07 GMT -5
you need more raiders 6-8
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 17, 2010 15:04:45 GMT -5
Whoa there cowboy. Maybe people avoid posting because of the insults that fly. I fail to see what I posted that would qualify as waving my epeen or drivvel. As I see it, you went out of your way to insult me with your comments. In fact I would qualify your original statement as drivvel as it intended to belittle his list and had no positive contribution to the thread. I took Dougs comment to hear a couple months back and have kept my posts positive until now. We can discuss the merits or lack of power lists without you insulting me. Have a nice day Ron
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Timbo
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Post by Timbo on Nov 17, 2010 15:07:35 GMT -5
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 17, 2010 15:17:20 GMT -5
Goatboy also made some nice grotesque conversions using skaven rat ogres you should check out.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Nov 17, 2010 15:26:14 GMT -5
Aaron you know what you did, I do to. I posted an observation and you jumped all over it becuase you thought I was calling his list a power list. You even went so far as to justify units he took. Again I re-iterate, I posted an observation and you felt the need to defend him when in fact I was not attacking his list at all.
I am finished with this conversation, it has no meaning or point that contributes positively to this post which I had only intended to point out a simple thing which was taking and blown way out of proportion becuase people like you Aaron always seem to have the need to defend yourself and precieve things as they are not. YOu have a fine day too. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by chumbalaya on Nov 17, 2010 19:17:56 GMT -5
You got into an internet fight without me? I'm hurt, guess y'all don't need my services any more Haemonculus coven armies look fun, but the list Joe (right?) put up definitely looks a lot more compy than powerful. Just a couple things I'd recommend: -Urien is awfully expensive for some random pain tokens and mediocre abilities his own. I'd definitely rather have 2-3 more Haemonculi or just other stuff. -Just because you can have toys doesn't mean you should. You can sink tons of points into Haemonculis, Grotesques and Wracks, but they really don't need all that when their primary job is being durable and cheap. Liquefiers and poisoned attacks can finish what darklight weapons and heat lances start. -Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. 1 WWP is a big risk, so is taking only a handful of Raiders. Going second is going to hurt, since you can't effectively reserve without having Talos/Cronos showing up on board edges and with so few kites you'll be losing them left and right. -Grotesques look nice, but potentially expensive. I'd consider running 3 with a Liquefier and Flesh Gauntlet. 5 Attacks with 3+ poison insta-kills re-rolling wounds is a frightening prospect for lots of stuff. Add a Haemy sporting a Liquefier and you have FNP, FC and 2 Liquifiers in a tough beatstick unit. -Blasters and Heat Lances don't mix. The former wants to sit back and take advantage of its awesome range, while the latter needs to get close to use those extra dice. If you have Scourges coming out of the WWP, I like heat lances since you can get close so quickly. -Haywire Launchers rock on Talos. Extra suppression fire for cheap is always handy. S7 MC attacks take care of the rest. I like the concept a lot and it should be fine for compy stuff, but it could definitely be tightened up for competitive play. Looking forward to seeing how you paint it.
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Post by fishboy on Nov 17, 2010 21:52:24 GMT -5
Wow...I never figured this list would start a fight...
The reason I did this list was simply because of all the conversion posibilities as well as the randomness of the army. Iron you are right about the AP of the Liquifier guns but that also applies to the strength. My luck I will have st1 ap6 liquifiers all over the board heheh.
I do lists because I think they are fun to play and fun to paint. I stopped playing for the win years ago...although I do still like to win now and then hehe.
All in all this list will be okay at a lot of things but not great at any. Sure the Wracks get FNP and with the hammy will get FC. However their weapons are poisoned so really all I am getting is the +1 initiative. The only reason I am taking Urien is I love the idea of the clone field heh. If I could put one on a normal Hammy I would but it is not an option. The reason all the war gear is soooo different is simply for comp. After getting hammered on comp at Daboyz and knowing you guys do a lot of comp events in the area, it is an opportunity for a more comp fluff list.
Iron I took a step back and looked at the list and do not see an overly powerful list still. I do not watch the net for net lists as I like to do my own thing. I think this is a very average list but I will keep looking at it while doing my conversions and watching if other people are playing something similar to see if there is an issue with it being a broken list. I hope not as I really like the idea of this list and the paint/conversion posibilities hehe. I really like the shock prow on the raiders. If my 4 dark lances cant take ya then....RAMMING SPEED heheh.
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Post by chumbalaya on Nov 17, 2010 22:19:42 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry too much about comp as time goes on. At first you'll get knocked just for "zomg new army rawr" but as things settle down you should be fine.
Taking a pure Haemonculus coven deal may look nasty on paper, but it ends up really missing Wyches, Ravagers, and the like that add a whole lot of flexibility to the army. Theme and model-wise though, it sounds fantastic.
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