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Post by evil_red_orks on Apr 22, 2012 20:58:53 GMT -5
Gee, look at all those Grey Knight top 16 qualifiers... what a surprise.
To anyone playing grey knights in our area(which is a boatload), how about showing a little imagination in your list building.
My wife could have prolly won adepticon with any of the typical lists ive seen.
Im calling u guys out, chaos shall rule supreme once again!!!!
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
Posts: 315
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Post by sinistermind on Apr 22, 2012 21:27:22 GMT -5
dont worry im sure there will be double the amount of "these lists" for chaos once the chaos legions book is released
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Post by evil_red_orks on Apr 23, 2012 6:22:57 GMT -5
At least i can say that i played chaos BEFORE the new book came out, unlike alot of the current grey knight players.
Also i put a little imagination into my lists, and dont spam oblits or lash princes.
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
Posts: 315
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Post by sinistermind on Apr 23, 2012 7:41:03 GMT -5
i'm one of the deamonhunters players! i use mostly the new models but i have all my old grey knight metal models(mostly used/converted for characters/hq's)
And the cheesiest army list i took was at the last MG tourney i took draigo and 10 paladins(with wound shenanigans), everyone kept calling it draigo-wing but fact is i also had 500pts into a purifier unit(8 purifiers+equipment+stormraven/techamarine) so i would hardly call the list "optimized" or draigo-wing... otherwise i usually take a mix of termies/strike squads/ henchmen/ purifiers/interceptors and i have never used more than ONE rifle dread
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Post by Icemyn on Apr 23, 2012 8:31:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately once you sink ~1k points into Draigo + 10 Fully allocated Paladins the only name you can get is Draigo Wing. Whatever else gets played to fill the rest of the points varies from player to player.
The problem I see with Grey Knights isn't that they have one thing in their codex that is so broken and over the top, it's that everything in their codex is just a bit better than what other codices can do. Generally, you don't get killed by a spammed uber-unit (Like with other codices), you get crushed under the weight of their overall increased efficiency.
Now I'm going to go back to spamming wraiths and Surfboard lords, don't judge me.
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Post by professor on Apr 23, 2012 10:42:27 GMT -5
I agree with Icemyn on the efficiency aspect of GK, they can put down a ton of models. Part of the issue is they also do not have to make the same kind of tradeoff decisions most armies doe.
Psycannon firing modes mean you can always at least take 2 shots, and the fact that they rend makes them general purpose armor killers. Add in the ability to take some dirt cheap Acolytes in a Chimera bunker and TLAC unshakable dreads, and it is a mess.
I do not know what is going to happen to Daemons with 6th ed, hopefully there are some DS and/or reserves rule changes. It looks like Preferred Enemy (based on destroyers) is going to shooting as well...
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nutter
Sergeant
Ben "Ginger Gotee" Lucko
Posts: 304
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Post by nutter on Apr 23, 2012 12:18:11 GMT -5
Tac Marine 15 points
Grey Knight strike Marine 15 points.
With out factoing in anything other that the base ware gear your getting better shooting and Better combat.
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Post by bromento on Apr 23, 2012 12:31:05 GMT -5
Also i put a little imagination into my lists, and dont spam oblits or lash princes. Haha thats a crack at me. Sorry Terry. I normally run a pretty tame list.
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robm
Marine
Posts: 63
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Post by robm on Apr 23, 2012 13:17:29 GMT -5
Tac Marine 15 points Grey Knight strike Marine 15 points. Yeah, try again. 16 for the Tac and 20 for the strike. Still a deal though, and 2 points more (in 10 man sqd) and you get S5 stormbolters.
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Post by Icemyn on Apr 23, 2012 13:26:13 GMT -5
Amusingly all I hear from GK players is how bad Strikes are as a troop choice. I guess +4 points per model for all power weapons, Storm Bolters, psyk grenades, and Psychic powers is a bit unreasonable.
Maybe they are just a bad choice when you look at all the things that can be made troops lol.
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nutter
Sergeant
Ben "Ginger Gotee" Lucko
Posts: 304
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Post by nutter on Apr 23, 2012 14:07:11 GMT -5
Yeah from some reason I was stuck on 15.... oops
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Post by hyv3mynd on Apr 23, 2012 14:31:51 GMT -5
At least i can say that i played chaos BEFORE the new book came out, unlike alot of the current grey knight players. Also i put a little imagination into my lists, and dont spam oblits or lash princes. Well, since I've only been playing 2 years I can never claim that I played army X before the new book came out. At least until they redo the Nid codex again which will be years. So, from my point of view the "I've played them since before they were powerful" excuse is lame IMO. I heard it from IG and SW players back when people were female doging about those armies. Now I'm hearing it from GK and Necron players. In 6 months, we'll be hearing it from Chaos and DA players or whatever is hot then. Hell, I even remember people female doging about Nids when Jay and Shaun brought out the tervigon spam lists. Two years later, 0 out of 240 players at adepticon brought Nids. People flock to new books for power reasons and some do it for *gasp* the new models! Some people dig out their retired collections when the new book arrives. One group does not have a greater claim or right to play their army of choice. Everyone walking into the store with $500 in their pocket has the same options for armies. Don't criticize them for going one way with their investment when you went another. If you call me out for playing GK because they're OP, I'll encourage you to choose a stronger codex than CSM next time. Casual games are one thing, but don't fault people who invest $500 in an army and then $10 a month to play 3 games for actually wanting to win games. FWIW, I would claim to have the most "imaginative" GK army in town. No special characters, no pallies, no purifiers, and at 1850pts, not a single duplicated unit. It has 11 unique codex selections, my 11 man henchman unit has 7 unique models, my 5 man termie squad has no duplicated weapons. I put hundreds of hours into painting the nuts up and yet, the complaints I hear about the codex easily outnumber any compliments on the list or appearance 5 to 1. So now, they stay on the shelf 6 months at a time. Chances are I will sell the army because I'd rather start a new one than listen to the constant complaining about GKs. However, IMO every batch of new models that accompany a new book are better than the last. When I sell my GK it will be to build Chaos Legions, DA, Tau or whatever new set of models speak to me the most. Just remember next time you get ready to rail on a group of people who chose the same army, they don't all do it for competitive reasons. There are many people out there who do in fact have "imagination" in list design and some who do it for the hobby.
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
Posts: 315
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Post by sinistermind on Apr 23, 2012 14:43:55 GMT -5
i like strike squads.. albiet mostly for the fact they have area denial vs deepstriking.
yea when you factor in all the extra stuff a standard grey knight gets vs. a tac marine is seems like a really good deal at first, but when you take a unit of them that 4 pts per guy adds up.
and every seems to be under the impression that shoving all these extra things onto a marine and making him more expensive means that one of those bonus' he just gained can prevent him from dying to the same fleshborer/lasgun that killed the tac. marine...all your eggs in one basket is a negative 9 times out of 10, grey knights in general ARE undercosted/overly equiped..at least until the next "balanced" dex "one up's" it. dark angels? chaos maybe?
that's also leaving out the fact im sure when codex:space marine gets redone the tac. marine will be 12-ish pts
either way strike squads are under-rated and over-looked when compared to purifiers/henchmen
in other news im selling IG and starting DE (nids,GK,IG, DE)
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Post by evil_red_orks on Apr 23, 2012 14:49:06 GMT -5
First of I was simply stating how grey knight players were the top qualifiers for the finals at adepticon. Fully half of them were grey knights and thats a fact.
Second of all I was encourging our grey knight players to not fall into the trap of those internet lists with MSU.
Lastly by calling out the grey knights, that means throwing down on the tabletop.
I think u took it a little too far and personally aaron.
Everyone can play what they want,it wont stop me from playing the game.
End of discussion for me, see you all Tuesday.
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pogysnacks
Sergeant
Jeremy Plisk ..um Orks>everything else
Posts: 239
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Post by pogysnacks on Apr 23, 2012 16:28:20 GMT -5
unfortunately this happens with the game, maybe not to this extent, out of the entire field at adepticon 50% were some grey knight variant...its just that they dont have anything thats not viable
Hyveminds right, its a trend, all you space marine players complaining remember when vulkan first hit? Half the d**n field was salamanders, than space wolves came out...or IG how theyve dominated the competitive scene since they were redone..Grey Knights will fall off when the new hotness comes out, Chaos will probably be rediculous considering how terrible the current one is.
Chaos guys please dont complain about cheese in comparison to prior editions, you have no room (Iron Warriors anyone?)
Hell in 40k all of you know that oddball armies can win, good players can trump silliness, Courtney does it all of the time. Find a way to beat it.
And if you watch the semi game it was streamed..the grey knight player won over a cron player who made quite a few mistakes, and didnt quite understand some rules...watch it...
And dont hate on grey knights, hate on matt ward, hes more than likely not putting out any more books, hes pissed off a ton of people
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