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Post by hyv3mynd on Jun 30, 2012 23:36:45 GMT -5
These are not rumors. They're straight from the book. Feel free to add individual specific rules changes (no rumors pls).
1. Jink saves are taken against rams by skimmers so that's 5+ now instead of 3+
2. Explosions are always st4 regardless of open topped.
3. Armor and fnp against dangerous terrain now. Move through cover auto-passes all dangerous terrain.
4. Beasts can now climb ruins levels but not cavalry lol.
5. It looks like terrain is by density limit (d3 per 2x2) for an average of 12 terrain pieces per table. Will that be the new standard that replaces 25%?
6. Who can fight: Models within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with an enemy model. (No longer 2" from a model in the same unit) Must still have a model from the unit in b2b. This means it is possible to prevent certain (low init) models from swinging if you suffer enough casualties first and pull casualties away.
7. Heavy weapon models can remain stationary and fire normally, even if their unit members move around them (coherency still applies).
8. Jump infantry can use their jump packs in movement or assault but not both. You only get impact hits when using jump packs in assault so if you want to do that, you can only move 6". This includes wraiths.
9. No retreat wounds on fearless units are gone.
10. Fearless units can never go to ground.
11. Units arriving from reserves cannot assault unless given codex permission (vanguard vets, ymgarl genestealers). This includes outflankers and using a webway portal.
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Post by ccourtney on Jul 1, 2012 8:15:32 GMT -5
Explosions do have a range, (page 74) the list on page 80 is damage done to passengers.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jul 1, 2012 8:26:22 GMT -5
Ahh we missed that thanks.
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Post by fishboy on Jul 1, 2012 9:53:33 GMT -5
Wrecks are still a 4+ cover too. I think we got that wrong as well.
Also you place your terrain AFTER you pick sides.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jul 1, 2012 10:13:30 GMT -5
Wrecks are 5+ cover. pg 74.
In casual games that's fine, but in tournaments are 100 tables going to be set up every round by the players?
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Post by sonofsanguinius on Jul 1, 2012 11:09:40 GMT -5
I don't recall the exact page, but I believe they mentioned two terrain set up types. The 'alternating' method where each player places terrain before the battle. Or the 'narrative' or 'scenic' terrain set up where the board is already set up to represent a specific theme.
For the sake of tournaments and more structured play, I would hope TO's just have preset terrain. Not only does it save a lot of set up time before games in which time is limited. But it ensures the most balanced set up for terrain on each table.
Using the alternating method, you can basically create virtual 'wall of terrain' in order to completely block LoS or firing lanes to your units if you play an assault army, or try to leave as much open space as possible if you play a shooting army. Not everyone would go to such extremes, but you know those type of people are out there. And even then most people would subconsciously make decisions that would provide them an advantage.
Use of terrain as it stands is in my opinion one of the bigger tactical decisions you take into consideration during deployment and throughout the game. I wouldn't want to see that taken away in favor of a time sink that could potentially create gross imbalances.
In a fun beer and pretzels game which you're just there to roll some dice and hang out. I see the alternating terrain method as being a fun little rule to mess around with. But certainly not something I would like to see in structured and specifically tournament settings.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Jul 2, 2012 2:13:19 GMT -5
In casual games that's fine, but in tournaments are 100 tables going to be set up every round by the players? This is exactly how the Canadian GT's used to set terrain. I played there several years and it seemed like a very fair and balanced way to set the table. In addition, if you have purchased terrain that you will be setting afterwards in your deployment, it gives you an opportunity to create spaces for it as well. Again my personal opinion is that we should play the rules as written first before warping the game to our likes or dislikes by throwing away parts that just don't seem to benefit our own personal armies.
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robm
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Post by robm on Jul 2, 2012 7:47:58 GMT -5
Nothing to do with benefiting anyone, its about time constraints. You can't play anything over 1500 pts in 2 hours if you're screwing around with terrain on top of the time that will be wasted trying to muddle through mixed armor wound allocation.
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Post by sonofsanguinius on Jul 2, 2012 8:12:21 GMT -5
Nothing to do with benefiting anyone, its about time constraints. You can't play anything over 1500 pts in 2 hours if you're screwing around with terrain on top of the time that will be wasted trying to muddle through mixed armor wound allocation. The mixed armor rule isn't too bad once you get the swing of it. It takes a little longer if say it's only one guy with a different save and you have to roll each save individually. But if there is a pair or more of same value armor saves you can fast roll it. The little blurb in the book called fast rolling is actually pretty helpful. The really nasty thing about the new wound allocation system and especially in shooting (Not sure about CC yet) is that you as the shooter get to decide which 'pool' of shots your enemy rolls for first if there are differing APs. So say you have a bunch of bolter shots and a couple of melta. You make two wound pools, one for AP 5, and one for AP1. You then as the shooter get to choose which pool your enemy rolls for first. So if they have a bunch of grunts up front you can try to chew through them before putting melta shots on prime targets or vice versa. I'll do some more reading on CC and see if it works that way there as well.
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MajorSoB
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THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
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Post by MajorSoB on Jul 2, 2012 14:26:58 GMT -5
Time constraints, really that's the best argument you can manage? Seriously setting terrain takes less than 5 minutes a game. I've done it several years in Toronto, so has Courtney, so has Jay, so has Shaun, Paul too and it was never an issue. If you don't believe me ask one of them. Excluding this core rule makes as much sense as saying you can't play an army over 30 models because it takes too long to move them. As it was pointed out there are far more cumbersome parts of the game than terrain and fortifications.
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Post by fishboy on Jul 2, 2012 16:58:56 GMT -5
My guess is typically tournaments will have set tables. That is pretty standard now and I see no reason most wont continue that. It can generate time issues in some cases. I think 5th even had rules in it for setting terrain but to prevent any issues most tourny organizers (Myself included) kept terrain as standard. I know of no complaints with that.
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Post by Horst on Jul 2, 2012 17:25:09 GMT -5
You won't be able to use pre-set tables anymore for tournaments.
Fortifications are placed before terrain. Unless you ban fortifications from all tournaments (which would suck, imagine an imperial fist army with bastions, it would be awesome) then you need to place them before you place any and all terrain.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jul 4, 2012 20:49:22 GMT -5
This was meant to be a discussion of rules changes and it got off topic a bit. Here's one Andy and I picked up in a practice game Tuesday.
*Who can fight: Models within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with an enemy model. *edit - got this partially wrong. One model from the unit must still have b2b. So if you assault one unit with 2, its possible to remove one from combat if you remove enough casualties so init1 units don't get back into b2b with their 3" pile in.
Also, hvy weapon models can remain stationary and fire normally even if the other members of the unit move.
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Post by crimthaan on Jul 5, 2012 8:34:25 GMT -5
Also, hvy weapon models can remain stationary and fire normally even if the other members of the unit move. I LOVE THIS NEW RULE! My Tactical squads always had heavy weapons in them before but this really does make more sense. Also, with the snap shot after moving rule I'll be running Heavy Bolters a few more...I'd rather for got 3 S5 shots than 1S8.
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Post by jpiacelli on Jul 5, 2012 20:38:04 GMT -5
well with tournaments you can still do the same thing leave the terrain on the table that you want to play with and rearrange for every game. this way you can still play with the fortifications and also every game wont be the same. doing it this way might bring little more to a tournament any ways.
i also had a little question on the storm ravens about disembarking after flat out cause with storm ravens in there rules this is allowed but how does this take effect and what FAQs effects this or is this just true and that you can move 28 inches get out take your dangerous terrain check and then charge since its an assault vehicle
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