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Post by chaoscraig on Jan 8, 2013 21:35:55 GMT -5
So im tryin to finalize my adepticon list and this is how its lookin.
sorcerer mastery lvl2 buring brand of skallthrax
30 cultist 3 flamers
10 chaos space marines Mark of nurgle 2x plasma gun ,melta bomb rhino
10 chaos space marines Mark of nurgle 2x plasma gun ,melta bomb rhino
10 chaos space marines Mark of nurgle 2x melta gun ,melta bomb rhino
3 obliterators VotLW mark of nurgle 3 obliterators VotLW mark of nurgle 5 havocs 4x missle launchers
heldrake with baleflamer
helbrute with multi-melta
so c'mon guys be brutal on this list.
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Post by professor on Jan 10, 2013 13:41:49 GMT -5
The helbrute is, unfortunately, not a great choice imo for this kind of army. If you want to run them, I think you need to really stock up on those kinds of monsters.
Also, where does the Sorcerer go? With the cultists it looks like, but if you want to run them forward they are going to get destroyed by any mediocre assault unit.
Instead I would lose the helbrute and replace it with a Termicide squad to teleport in. I would make the cultists two units of 15-20, one to go in reserve and walk onto a nearby objective. The Sorcer can join the other or - even better imo - I would include a unit of bikers and throw the sorcerer on a bike. Then roll on telepathy which can get you some awesome powers. That makes his delivery of the Brand more effective and if you get invisibility those jink saves are at 2+.
I also always bring a spell familiar, I think it is a great deal to get those powers off. Overall the Fast Attack slot is awesome for CSM, I would be inclined to almost max it out.
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Post by chaoscraig on Jan 10, 2013 20:34:20 GMT -5
I definently want to get rid of the hell brute. i had 100 spare points that i didnt know where else to dump them in the list. I figured he was good to stick in the mix to keep landraiders a bit wary.(kinda knew that wouldnt even work)
Whats your thought on 7 man plague marine squads vs. the chaos space marines
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Post by professor on Jan 11, 2013 9:21:45 GMT -5
Plague Marines are still awesome - and with poison being even better now the plague knife means a lot. Fearless on top of that plus Feel No Pain are worth the -1I tradeoff overall imo.
That said, it (as always) really depends on your list and what you want the units to do. Stock CSM are so cheap, even with a mark, that it is never really a bad choice to take them. If you have 100 random points you do not know what to do with, making your marines the plague variants is not a bad idea.
A bit noncommittal, but they did a good job balancing those choices imo. My favorite cult troop is actually Noise Marines with huron as the HQ to infiltrate forward and unload on one of those Aegis lines everyone brings. A Sorcerer there too with a shot at invisibility makes them very hard to shift too.
I do not think the Helbrute really 'deters' a landraider. With BS 3 the multi-melta is going to at best wreck the raider in 1 in 7 (roughly) shots (without cover). While the Land Raider is going to just destroy him with an assault cannon and multi-melta. If the Helbrute is assaulting the Land Raider, then it has probably already delivered its cargo.
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Post by chaoscraig on Feb 28, 2013 17:26:54 GMT -5
soafter some play testing and a tourney the list has evolved into;;;;
lord MON black mace 30 cultists 3 flamers
8 plague marines 2 plasma rhino champ has melta bomb 8 plague marines 2 plasma rhino champ has melta bomb 8 plague marines 2 melta rhino champ has melta bomb
heldrake with baleflamer
3 oblits with MON VOTLW 3 oblits with MON VOTLW 5 havocs with missle launchers
about 40 points to play with.
Im considering dropping the havocs for another drake. but with target saturation they tend to stay pretty safe. and before you bash me on giving up first blood with the rhinos....in no adepticon primer is that a requirment for a crushing victory.
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
Posts: 315
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Post by sinistermind on Feb 28, 2013 19:26:37 GMT -5
The helldrake with baleflamer is awesome i would switch the havocs for one but that's just me
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Post by professor on Feb 28, 2013 21:55:41 GMT -5
Swap the Havoks to Autocannons, the Oblits can take any heavier armor that the missiles would shoot at.
I would also do a Sorcerer as Mastery 3 and a Spell Familiar. Cultists are best in squads of 15 - 20 imo. I think you can save enough for the Sorc with this losing VOTLW on the oblits and cutting the missiles to autocannons, then roll him on Telepathy for invisibility, foritude for cultists and Hallucination.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Mar 1, 2013 0:15:16 GMT -5
The list is solid enough, maybe a tad short on models if someone can remove cultists quickly and mitigate the oblits.
If you aren't worried about the fact that drakes are the rage right now and people will bust your balls, a second drake would be better than the havocs IMO.
That aside, I'm a proponent of practice over a "magic list" and yours is plenty potent. I wouldn't make many changes and just play with it as much as possible. Try to figure out your game plan against guard blobs, air forces, CSM mirror matches, and ravening/death wing because you'll prolly see a lot of those at Adepticon.
Maybe a palanquin or sigil on The Lord to make him more resilient with your spare points.
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Post by evil_red_orks on Mar 1, 2013 7:40:47 GMT -5
A nice hardcore competitive list, which is completely opposite the list im taking..oh well.
My initial thoughts are to drop all the cultists and get a full squad of nurgle spawn. The spawn will draw fire away from the rhinos which could be important if u dont get 1st turn. That still leaves u with 3 hardcore scoring units.
I know im in the minority, but im thinking about leaving my drake at home. I think the heldrake is too good now, peeps are going gear up to take them out which will leave their regular ground units weaker. I know im always thinking completely the opposite of whats being done though in the current meta though.
Of course drop the missles and go for autocannons.
I think u should keep the havocs, i think its kinda a waste for the oblits to go after rhinos and trucks. This will free up the oblits. nice ap2 weapons for heavier stuff.
Im trying to get my stuff fully painted as fast as possible to get some practice games in, as Aaron said thats the key.
See ya there!!
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Post by grubnards on Mar 1, 2013 9:06:15 GMT -5
I don't get this kind of crazy talk. It's the first good unit to come out of a chaos codex in years and its almost as chaos players feel guilty for using it. I only wish Space Wolves, Blood Angel, Necrons, and Grey Knight players felt the same way about their units. As for the havocs vs 2nd drake, I am inclined to agree with Terry and keep the auto cannon havocs. They are good at targeting lightly armored vehicles and even snap firing at flyers. Throw an Icon of Excess and an extra body onto the unit and they will have a longer lifespan.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Mar 1, 2013 9:31:09 GMT -5
Hence why my GK collection lacks Draigo, Coteaz, and Crowe. My CSM collection doesn't have a drake and never will, just doesn't appeal to me.
I recently read a tournament report somewhere (Goatboy maybe?), the author recalled looking down the row he was playing on and nearly every table had 2 drakes on it.
Some people let public opinion influence their choices and some don't. The "guilt factor" is laid on pretty thick around here, but Adepticon is a different matter. I'd be willing to bet CSM are super popular both as primary and allies, and more armies will have drakes than not.
On a purely functional note, he has 6 oblits, 4 plasma, and 2 melta which is plenty IMO as mech transport spam is less prevalent than last edition. IDK what the Adepticon missions are, but if it were me I would go with 2 heavies and 2 fast over 3:1. That's purely based on book missions and may be moot when applied to theirs. Nearly all of my armies since 6th have had a single flyer also, and getting it in turn 4 happened at least once in each tournament. A second flyer mitigates some of that potential.
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Post by grubnards on Mar 1, 2013 11:12:45 GMT -5
ha... I'm not finger pointing at anyone locally. If someone wants to buy a model for how cool it looks or because its a beat-stick unit then go for it. It's their money and I'll play them regardless of what they are using. I got my heldrake a couple of weeks ago and plan on running it next weekend but I'll never own more than one as A) its expensive as hell and B) I like other chaos FA choices as well.
Good point about the ratio of heavy vs FA. In the past chaos had zero effective FA units and everyone loaded up on heavies. Now we have 3-4 solid FA units to compete with the heavy slot.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Mar 1, 2013 11:23:23 GMT -5
True.
I'm a sucker for nurgle spawn. Probably my favorite unit in the codex as far as conversion potential and pure speed. I could see value in nurgle bikes or raptors in Craig's list as well.
My advice was purely based on his decision between havocs and another drake, and the extra 40pts.
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
Posts: 315
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Post by sinistermind on Mar 1, 2013 13:31:43 GMT -5
Yea kevin that autocannon havoc squad was putting out a lot of shots in our first practice game, as long as you can roll above a 2 to hit(kevin wasn't) ;D nothing like 8 S7 shots causing 1 hull point on a rhino per turn hahaha
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Post by grubnards on Mar 1, 2013 13:58:20 GMT -5
ha... you do realize that the law of probability hates me, don't you? Just like when I was shooting 3 combi-meltas into the 2 space wolves. Miss with 2 and then roll a 1 for my wound. Maybe I need to invest in Erich dice but I don't think that would help either.
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