pogysnacks
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Jeremy Plisk ..um Orks>everything else
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Post by pogysnacks on Jun 2, 2013 14:50:02 GMT -5
The new eldar codex has barely been out and already there's the typical zomg nerd rage. Now specifically I will have to point out for the rather misinformed, they are a specialist army, and you cannot play them like a hammer, they need to be played with finesse and much more situational awareness, they are not easy mode grey knights, necrons, guard, every other marine codex. I have been perusing through forums reading all of the crap people are posting stating the codex is underpowered, rushed, and unpolished with a general consensus that the army is weak, fragile, and can't compete. Now, fragile yes, but weak? Not competetive? Not by a long shot, I've been playing eldar for awhile, even sold off my original eldar army 5 yrs ago to buy space wolves (not the brightest move), only to rebuild my eldar army over the last few years, and they're much better now than the last incarnation because they've been updated for this edition obviously. All of the units have been tweaked to be more efficient at what they do (although howling banshees are still crap IMO) and d**n are most of them better by a bit, the universal upgrade to BS 4 for all of the guardians and well everything prior bs3 is huge, a bs4 falcon is going to be much more efficient at shredding tanks, while guardians may actually be able to kill something with be 4 and blade storm. Psychic powers and runes took needs as randomizing changes the reliable tactics/fall backs we had in prior editions, meaning you will not always have fortune/doom/guide but some newer powers provide great utility, and now we even have a solid anti flyer in the crimson hunter (av10 sucks), squishy but d**n it is a fast killer, with skyhunter and a pulse laser as well as 2 bright lances you can be sure something will die (obviously not as good as the under costed vendetta), and fairly priced at 160pts. The wraithknight packs killing power but personally, for its hefty pt cost, you'll be better off with war walkers, falcons (now bs4) and wraithlords. I'm a fan of dark reapers, but in the environment down here I'm not a fan of taking them in tournaments because they're expensive and don't provide enough bang for their hefty price tag in comparison, again, to war walkers which are still the primo heavy support option. Fire dragons are still awesome, just 22pts apiece now, but I still say an auto include, while swooping hawks, warp spiders, and scorpions are all still viable options as well as harlequins, all balanced out and tweaked very well. Take a look through the book and judge for yourself, it's great and there's an iyanden supplement on the horizon, all in all good stuff
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Jun 2, 2013 23:51:26 GMT -5
I picked up the book yesterday on the way to work. Once again however I spent the night trying to stay caught up and really didn't get much of a chance to look over the new shiny pages that liberated $50 from my wallet. I spent that last several weeks reading the whining both pro and con like, "BS4 is too good!", "the didn't fix this...", "Eldar have no assault vehicles options", "that Titan is a) HUGE, b) OTT, C) overpriced, d) all of the above, or e) none of the above, pick one". So today when I got home I tried to catch up on some sleep in preparation for my upcoming "normal" work week. When that option failed, I started looking over the new codex. Here is what I came up with:
1) They are still space fairies. I don't see myself playing them but to each his own. 2) I am glad that Runes of Warding got hit with a big old Nerf bat along with Eldred. I can't tell you how boring it has been to see Eldred , sometimes with his buddy, Maugan Ra, in ever Eldar army over the past few years. I know the "autowin" HQ choice is probably in the new codex too, but at least it will be a different model to stare at in the upcoming future. 3) Yeah the random nature of psychic powers can be rough but welcome to 6th edition. You wanted a new codex, you got one! 4) BS4 is definitely a bonus. Is it OTT, I am not sure but it seems like a solid upgrade to me. 5) I am glad that they fixed the Swooping Hawks hit and run. 6) I too am baffled by the lack of help with the Banshees. All I can think of is that GW might have some thoughts as to how assaults might happen in 7th edition ( too soon? ) and that they don't want to make them too good when this edition hits. 7) Harlies look better but will never see the table again. 8) Scorpions also look better and will see the table alot. 9) Dark Reapers are still meh. 10) Fire Dragons being made more expensive doesn't make sense to me in an already crowded heavy slot. 11) Warp Spiders are still good it seems. 12) The Fire Prism and Night Spinner look better and more versatile. 13) That Titan looks good but also has some weakness to it as well. Good luck finding cover that will obscure at least 25% of that model!I am sure that I will see at least one in most Eldar armies now. 14) I'm not sold on either flyer and while it isn't fair to compare the the the "golden standard" set by the Vendetta, they both seem better that the Tau flying turds. 15) Jetbikes are good now! 16) The Avatar is also decent and will be competing for a spot in most lists. 17) Not sure what to make of the rumored Iyanden supplement. I hope that it isn't an electronic only publication but at this point who knows what GW will come up with. It would be nice to see some emphasis being placed back on the Craftworlds, and while this might work out well for the Alaitoc, Biel-Tan, Samm-Hann, and Ulthwe, maybe even the Altansar, you can rest assured that the Exodites will get passed over much like the Sisters of Battle did, or just purged entirely like the Squats!
So is this codex the win that all Eldar players have been crying about for the past several years, I would say that when everything is taken together it indeed puts them on the same level as every other codex and in some cases maybe just a little bit above. Is it a perfect codex, of course not, after all GW did write it!
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sinistermind
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Post by sinistermind on Jun 3, 2013 11:27:22 GMT -5
not to seem like im picking apart your first impressions i just dont feel like typing out my entire thoughts so Ill go on an agree/disagree basis ;D ;D Im also a little rusty on the previous codex since i havnt used my eldar in ages... 1) They are still space fairies. I don't see myself playing them but to each his own. hehe space elfs for sure,but fairies dont bring this much kick a@#..or use their dead in battle 2) I am glad that Runes of Warding got hit with a big old Nerf bat along with Eldred. I can't tell you how boring it has been to see Eldred , sometimes with his buddy, Maugan Ra, in ever Eldar army over the past few years. I know the "autowin" HQ choice is probably in the new codex too, but at least it will be a different model to stare at in the upcoming future. I agree the runes were over the top with the changes made to psychic powers in the new edition, Eldrad is still great, he can throw out tons of offense with runes of fate..looking at my dex I can honestly say there is not one HQ that screams "autowin" in any way 3) Yeah the random nature of psychic powers can be rough but welcome to 6th edition. You wanted a new codex, you got one! agreed..No complaints from me on not picking powers, the duality of runes of battle are awesome and the runes of fate list rocks in my opinion, my only complaint about eldar psykers is warlocks should not be Ld 8 PERIOD 4) BS4 is definitely a bonus. Is it OTT, I am not sure but it seems like a solid upgrade to me. Well they cant have an "elite/finesse" army that has subpar infantry.. otherwise play orks and get infantry at half the cost that are better, Bs4 is where it should be for guardians 5) I am glad that they fixed the Swooping Hawks hit and run. agree.. hawks are neat and with their buffs hopefully will be seen more now 6) I too am baffled by the lack of help with the Banshees. All I can think of is that GW might have some thoughts as to how assaults might happen in 7th edition ( too soon? ) and that they don't want to make them too good when this edition hits. Interesting thoughts, whos to say, but as it stands scorpions and wraithblades fill any role banshee's SHOULD better 7) Harlies look better but will never see the table again. they're alright, and the ability to make a solitaire might be reason enough for some, i was never a fan of clowns though 8) Scorpions also look better and will see the table alot. My favorite aspect, the newest models do them justice(love the predator-esque look) they are solid rules wise, definitely still viable without an assualt transport 9) Dark Reapers are still meh. Disagree, i think they got a huge boost, firsltly there squad size can now be TEN, although expensive (which is a moot point in an eldar codex) 20 S5 ap3 shots?better hope cover is abundant..also they can take crack missiles now,making them even more expensive of course but some people prefer versatility and lastly a positive and a negative is that they have slow and purposeful, so they can move and fire BUT can't overwatch 10) Fire Dragons being made more expensive doesn't make sense to me in an already crowded heavy slot. I assume you mean elite slot, and yea they definitely got the nerf bat a tad although gained 3+ armour 11) Warp Spiders are still good it seems. agree, they are actually very good but its hard to tell at just glancing at the entry 12) The Fire Prism and Night Spinner look better and more versatile. agree, the spinner definitely saw improvement, but the prism is VASTLY better, no more crap about taking multiple vehicles and only one being able to fire if you want a half decent weapon, now each has 3 modes for ANY role, big blast at ap3 small blast at ap2 and single shot at ap1, you will see many i guarantee it 13) That Titan looks good but also has some weakness to it as well. Good luck finding cover that will obscure at least 25% of that model!I am sure that I will see at least one in most Eldar armies now. obscure?? thats what warlocks are for! shrouded on demand baby(assuming you can pass a LD8 check but dont get me started on that) ;D ;D...but i dont know im not entirely sold,its tough but run into a dark eldar or some nid builds and kiss 240+ points goodbye also interesting would be rolling the pyschic power that restores wounds! 14) I'm not sold on either flyer and while it isn't fair to compare the the the "golden standard" set by the Vendetta, they both seem better that the Tau flying turds. I will be running a crimson hunter exarch but im not thrilled about the point cost of an av10 flyer, hits like a brick but gets taken down by bolter fire... 15) Jetbikes are good now! agree...jetbikes are great with the ability to move 36-48 inches in a turn, can also include a jetbike warlock with primaris giving shrouded for a 2+ cover if turbo boosting 16) The Avatar is also decent and will be competing for a spot in most lists. agree..I will be ordering th forgeworld model and even though i think my build better suits other HQ's i will be running one just because i can 17) Not sure what to make of the rumored Iyanden supplement. I hope that it isn't an electronic only publication but at this point who knows what GW will come up with. It would be nice to see some emphasis being placed back on the Craftworlds, and while this might work out well for the Alaitoc, Biel-Tan, Samm-Hann, and Ulthwe, maybe even the Altansar, you can rest assured that the Exodites will get passed over much like the Sisters of Battle did, or just purged entirely like the Squats! agree...From what I hear its just missions/fluff, since you can already make wraithguard/blades troops in the codex..but i havnt read much, i would really LOVE to be able to field a court of the young king again So is this codex the win that all Eldar players have been crying about for the past several years, I would say that when everything is taken together it indeed puts them on the same level as every other codex and in some cases maybe just a little bit above. Is it a perfect codex, of course not, after all GW did write it! agreed whole heartedly, Ive played eldar since codex craftworld,minus the past few years as they collected dust, but I am happy with this book and I think it will be fun to play, this certainly is not a codex you can spam anything and expect to get best general, Not that i ever take more than 2 of anything ...ever.. good writeup doug
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Jun 3, 2013 22:35:09 GMT -5
Good catch, I mixed up Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons in my write up but I think you get the point.
I saw Travis today and ordered a set of psychic cards from him that were never shipped. Seems like GW shorted many of its partnership stores with product just like they did on the Tau release. Kinda sucks for an independent retailer trying to make a living selling product for a company who doesn't seem to care about anything other then their own fat bottom line. ( Obligatory GW rant over )
I also talked with Alan ( former Slaanesh player for the past few years ) who was in picking up a few new Eldar pieces. He agreed that the codex was good, had a few WTF things in it like Banshees but overall seems like a solid book that will fit in with the other updated armies. He also was a bit surprised that none of the Phoenix Lords unlock aspects as troops but that also seems like a secondary complaint at best. We also talked about the run and shoot ability that some units have and think it will be interesting to see and play with. We agreed that overall this is a solid codex and it gives you options as to what style of army you would like to play. I am hoping that GW continues this trend of somewhat equally balanced books. Overall I am hoping that this book is exactly that but time will tell.
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Post by fishboy on Jun 4, 2013 7:21:04 GMT -5
I dont give a rats booty how they play....the flyers and the Knight are just too pretty to not spam all over the table ;D
I may get owned but I am running 2 knights and two flyers. I will squeez in what else I can but I dont care how it plays...its just so pretty heheh.
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sinistermind
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Post by sinistermind on Jun 4, 2013 7:31:51 GMT -5
@major- I agree I think alot of the new codex's, the eldar especially actually do a decent job of detering spam, whether its by having a good amount of decent options rule-wise or just having cool models people want to include just because. The eldar codex definitely will have its spam lists, ala 3 fire prisms were in almost every "my first eldar list" on dakka, Ive never been one to take a third of anything except troops but overall the codex seems to allow for mutiple competative builds. and after re-thinking jetbikes...they are even better than previously thought..like scary good and even at a higher cost shinning spears are actually really good now too with all the benefits(except a warlock, but can get a farseer/autarch) plus some at an additional cost fishboy- yea I really like the new models for sure, i'm sure your having a ball with those haha
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pogysnacks
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Jeremy Plisk ..um Orks>everything else
Posts: 239
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Post by pogysnacks on Jun 4, 2013 10:46:58 GMT -5
I'm going to have to agree with sinistermind, the wraithknight is cool, and that's where it's effectiveness dies. It's too expensive where prisms, war walkers, falcons, night spinners, and regular wraithlords are better options for what they do in comparison to their price. Now: yes banshees and dark reapers are both crap, striking scorpions are outstanding, the scorpions claw isn't a power fist anymore and has an exarch power to make him Str 8 ap2 with the d**n claw, that's insane basically making the exarch is a power fist toting space marine swinging at initiative not last...yea it's good. Swooping hawks and warp spiders are fantastic now they've been tweaked. Jet bikes have always been good, but cheaper now with blade storm just makes them pretty awesome. Storm Guardians, well they can pack some melta love I guess, but meh, while guardians may be more expensive, yet cheaper and better weapons platforms due to bs4 means they may actually kill things this edition, though if an ork sneezes nearby, 15 guardians will probably die, they're squishy. Dire avengers are a lot better, battle focus makes them awesome, allowing them better positioning as well as allowing them to close gaps quicker. I'm not one to broken up over eldrad and rune nerfs, I've played with 2 autarchs in the past, that aside, eldrad is still very strong, as well as all of the psyker masteries. The only people I ever dealt with that female doged about the old runes were the same people relying on lash or far more manly than me knight psychic abilities. So yes runes of warding so OTT they're gone god forbid someone doesn't figure out how to shoot idk bolters at eldar, or even guardsmen flashlights so thank god you can all stop crying (omg no I died trying to cast jotww, well it is just karma nut punching you for being a thingy). Ranting aside wraithguard and their quanky blade wielding versions are awesome, hello str4 ap2 blast template!
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pogysnacks
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Jeremy Plisk ..um Orks>everything else
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Post by pogysnacks on Jun 4, 2013 10:58:57 GMT -5
What I think is awesome is there really aren't too many super crazy units or items that break the balance across the board in the new codices, so we really do have a level playing field, hopefully they don't do too much damage updating orks because they're awfully good now even with a dated codex. The crimson hunter in my opinion is very good, just costed fairly (not undercosted like the Vendetta), and it is a flyer killer, just gonna take some finesse to keep it flying.
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sinistermind
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Post by sinistermind on Jun 4, 2013 13:34:25 GMT -5
disagree with the flyer, I do think its the best option for AA in the codex, but I dont think its priced appropriately for a vehicle that gets glanced by bolter fire, the Tau's AV 11 is out of bolter harm and costs 20-40 points less(albeit at less damage for the most part) I guess it doesnt help I will be running mine as an exarch at 180 points
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Post by fishboy on Jun 4, 2013 14:45:32 GMT -5
WIth a 2 to hit....I will too hehehe
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sinistermind
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Post by sinistermind on Jun 4, 2013 15:03:02 GMT -5
I look forward to the challenge of a finesse army after playing IG/chaos for the past 6 months ..
and yea a 2 to hit with its 4 S8 shots for 20 points? why not go for the extra cost if its already 160 I guess the key to the crimson hunter is using the extra pivot(vector dancer) to run tight patterns to keep distance from small arms fire that can and WILL glance your 160+ pt flyer right out of the air, while making sure your first pivot can bring a good target into your firing arc... instead of the way most players just take straffing runs across the table, which works for av12, deamon save, ceramite hull,etc...
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Jun 4, 2013 23:27:28 GMT -5
I dont give a rats booty how they play....I may get owned Yep, you will!!!! Hehe ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D .the flyers and the Knight are just too pretty to not spam all over the table ;D...its just so pretty heheh. Got to agree with Sinister, while they offer some nice additions to current Eldar armies, they are good play wise but not great. That being said I do think that for the overall health of the game it is important to have a codex that offers plenty of good options without making one or two so far superior that nothing else is considered. Like I said, GW has done a really decent job with the 6th edition books so far. Although I am not crazy about the new price, I think the rules have overall been decent. Hoping that this trend continues. We did mention jetbikes. I have a feeling that you may see alot of jetbike armies now (well for those who can afford them!), Bikes in general are great under the current rule set because they are so fast and have very little issues with terrain. They offer the mobility that most players are looking for without the limitations that most "deathbox" transports offer. With the these past few books in mind, especially the Dark Angles I am starting to wonder what path the new Space Marine codex will take. I hope its a good one!
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