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Post by colonelellios on Feb 20, 2006 11:18:55 GMT -5
Hey guys. Just intersted in knowing what DaBoyz in all their gaming experience think of the possibility of changing the vehicle damage tables. The intention is to help skimmers a bit and I also think a scaling effect would be evident--the thicker the armor the more benefit from this change (the land raider could use it for sure). I'm interested in playtesting this over several games just to see how large the effect would be...
Glancing Table: 1: Crew Shaken 2: Crew Shaken 3: Crew Stunned 4: Crew Stunned 5: Weapon Destroyed 6: Immobilized
Penetrating Table: 1: Crew Stunned (apply to all other results on this table) 2: Weapon Destroyed 3: Immobilized 4: Immobilized and Weapon Destroyed 5: Vehicle Destroyed and Scatter d6" (represents final vehicle movement/death throes such as ammo cooking off/fuel explosion/death of driver but engine still engaged--discourages "planned destruction" or "mobile terrain" as they call it) 6: Vehicle Destroyed and Scatter d6" and d6" Explosion (after scatter)
Discuss away...
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Feb 20, 2006 11:29:23 GMT -5
No. This makes a Land Raider nearly impossible to kill. And the immoblize and weapon destroied result, as far as I know (I could be wrong) if all destroiable weapons are destroied (ie: every weapon or like all 6 flux arc shots on the monolith) and it is immobile, this counts as destroied. So for (most) rhinos, this is slang for destroied.
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 20, 2006 11:48:44 GMT -5
How often can you Pen rhinos before they do their job?
This would also equate to destroyed for any skimmer, and would seriously cripple any other vehicle. What exactly is the problem? (please come up with a better example than that) and don't LR deserve to be tough to kill? currently they're a joke.
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Feb 20, 2006 12:01:35 GMT -5
Its the only thing you can transport termies in! This could result in first turn assault if your opponent goes first. So lets take my Abbadon and friends. Pop 'em in an LR and go second w/ my opponent moving up 6". First turn assault son, and im going through your whole army.
Served
BTW, unless your being cheated, they already are B¡tch to kill!
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 20, 2006 12:02:24 GMT -5
Shut up Brian.
...anyone have meaningful input that's not a special-curcumstance-exaggeration involving a 250 pt HQ special character?
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Feb 20, 2006 14:43:10 GMT -5
If you want to play against a possessed chaos vehicle with rules like that... the go right ahead... but there's no chance I will be doing that.
and you shouldn't be telling brian to shut up with an idea as stupid as that.
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Sanguinary
Sergeant
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Post by Sanguinary on Feb 20, 2006 14:48:21 GMT -5
I think the existing damage charts are fine. Those charts make killing any high armored vehicle nearly immosible. Can you imagine trying to kill a monolith on that chart?
Skimmers are already tough enough to kill. You only normally roll on the glancing chart since they usually move anyway. There is no need for a change. And why play rules that will never be played at a tournament.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 20, 2006 14:54:01 GMT -5
I see this chart only helps skimmers and possesed vehicles. There is no viable reason for using this chart unless you use a mass amount of skimmers. This would be giving an unfair advantage to skimmers for obvious reasons. I dont see much potential for this list.
And I agree with wolf lord. Dont be telling brian to shut up when you said something dumber than what he said...and thats hard to do.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Feb 20, 2006 15:35:00 GMT -5
Actually... the prospect of fighting a eldar falcon grav tank is absolutely frightening with that damage table... even worse than possessed chaos vehicles. Not to mention a monolith...
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 20, 2006 15:39:25 GMT -5
Hey I just wanted a consensus of opinions.
It's from a discussion happening on the GW boards...so a measure of stupidity is not surprising.
The majority opinion is obvious, thank you.
To continue the discussion, does anybody think that vehicles are in any way too fragile currently? More to the point, how is it fair that a 250 point land raider can go "boom" first turn so easily? Is this a problem with the Land Raider in general or a problem with the damage charts?
And also, trying to have a discussion with you guys is like trying to talk casually with a bunch of angry drunken Irish...
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Feb 20, 2006 16:34:57 GMT -5
Damage chart stupid - yes vehicles to fragile - yes vehicles to hard to hurt - yes
The system in Warmachine is pretty cool for damaging the warjacks (dreadnought thingies)
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 20, 2006 16:53:44 GMT -5
WTF?
Wait a min here. You post a discussion, a rather silly one that has obvious flaws in it. And then you jump down the first persons throat that gives you his opinion of it. Then people give you thier opinions and defend the person whom you got on thier back and then you turn around with this acusation. Grow up man.
Now to the topic.
You pay for a 255 point Land raider you live with the consiquences. Its huge, hard to hide and large target but its armor is good, still transport troops that can assualt out of it when it moves. It has anti tank and anti infanytry weapons depending on which you take. IMO the vehicle was never worth its points in the first place because you cant hide the d**n thing (and why would you for what it does?) Its a points sink imo and I never found a use for it besides being a points sink.
Rhinos, Chimeras, Truks and any other land based transports other than land raiders have been crippled in the new rules for obvious reasons.
Skimmers got better with this only glance in HTH now. Other than that nothing fundementaly has changed for skimmers. Just move your 6+ to make sure its a glance and you good. Eldar, Dark eldar and tau all have wargear to help extend the life of thier skimmers. Skimmers imo are too hard to take out.
Oh look 3 glances, a 1 a 2 and a 3...Hmm, i essentally did nothing and now to get rid of it I must spend another turn to try and kill it again.
Again have to agree with Wolf Lord, If the applied the box like technique to vehicles in 40k like they do in warmachine with mechs the game would be a whole lot more intersting.
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Post by dragons3 on Feb 20, 2006 19:37:18 GMT -5
IMPERIAL ARMOUR COMPANY TANKS WITH TRACK GUARDS WILL NEVER DIE,WHEN ATTACKED FROM THE FRONT. MY ARMOUR COMPANY IS FINE WITH THE 4TH EDITION CHART. TORNADO'S ARE CHEAP AND DEADLY, I THINK THERE FINE AS IS. FALCONS WITH STONES ARE ALREADY TO HARD TO KILL. IF IT'S NOT BROKE DON'T FIX IT! THANKS FOR THE IDEA, HAVE A NICE DAY!
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 20, 2006 19:44:01 GMT -5
Dragons, Not entirely true, Track Guards on means that: On a 4+ you do not become immobilized and instead you become Stunned (with no modifciations allow, like Extra armor). A pen 4/5/6 and a glance 6 still KA-BOOMS a tank. I still cant believe that Armored Company is a legal tournement list at a GT....Maybe I will ressurect mine! ;D
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 20, 2006 22:50:46 GMT -5
WTF? Wait a min here. You post a discussion, a rather silly one that has obvious flaws in it. And then you jump down the first persons throat that gives you his opinion of it. Then people give you thier opinions and defend the person whom you got on thier back and then you turn around with this acusation. Grow up man. Ron...it's *sarcasm*... If I offended anyone sorry I can be a cynical bastard but I'm usually just being sarcastic. And responses like "no." followed up with exaggeratory remarks doesn't contribute to any sort of discussion...which is the point of a message board...unless of course you don't like discussing in which case don't post. Does this make sense? EDIT: Perhaps I should make this clearer. I wasn't generally insulting everyone here with the "drunken irish" remark. I was genuinely attempting humor...sorry if it sounded too dry...jeeze
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