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Post by DoubleTap on May 20, 2011 6:41:00 GMT -5
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Post by inzeos on May 20, 2011 9:05:46 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a larger price increase than some of the past ones from what I recall. Many of the battle forces for example are going up like $10 dollars some more popular main stay kits are going up $4 to $5 dollars.
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Post by DoubleTap on May 20, 2011 9:28:24 GMT -5
Well, thats better than some of the rumors on other boards out there....people are talking about 25% increases on the battleforce sets alone!
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Smitty
Sergeant
Marines die, thats what we're here for, But the Marine Corps lives 4ever & that means YOU live 4ever
Posts: 324
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Post by Smitty on May 20, 2011 12:19:12 GMT -5
Well I don't know how long you have been in this hobby but GW has been raising its prices for years.. I started in '91 what do you think a box of marines cast me back them. Here is a spoiler they will have another price hike next May/June like they have had the last I don't know how many years.. I'm not saying I like it but it happens every year and everyone gets in an up roar. One thing to look at though every year they are producing better and better models.
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Post by inzeos on May 20, 2011 13:36:38 GMT -5
Well I don't know how long you have been in this hobby but GW has been raising its prices for years.. I started in '91 what do you think a box of marines cast me back them. Here is a spoiler they will have another price hike next May/June like they have had the last I don't know how many years.. I'm not saying I like it but it happens every year and everyone gets in an up roar. One thing to look at though every year they are producing better and better models. Not new, but it's one of the few hobbies to always be going up in price. Last two years it's also the only hobby I have not been able to convince people to get into due to that price factor. |
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Post by travis on May 20, 2011 19:11:22 GMT -5
Prices increased for a few reasons.
Their books and paints they don't make in house. The people that make the paints tell them what they cost and they adjust their prices accordingly.
The models that went up in price were due to the cost of their materials. All of their stuff is now petro based.
The price increase had nothing to do with the new resin machinery. This will be paid for by the models that are spun in them over time.
They will never reduce prices on anything. Why? Well as soon as they do, they have devalued everything you have purchased and everything on retailers walls.
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Post by skyth on May 21, 2011 9:54:39 GMT -5
The models that went up in price were due to the cost of their materials. All of their stuff is now petro based. Since materials account for maybe 2% of the costs, even doubling the cost of materials doesn't account for a 10% price increase. Not to mention that GW has been talking about it's new model process saving money...And it's funny that moving from pewter to plastic (IE a less expensive material) leads to a price hike as well. GW charges more because they think they can. They have a luxury product and stockholders to please. As long as people buy at the higher prices, GW will continue to raise them |
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Post by professor on May 21, 2011 10:22:15 GMT -5
Would you care to cite the source that says the material costs represent only 2% of overall product costs?
Inflation this year is 3.2% thus far in the U.S. and between 3% and 4% in the UK. Add to this the fact that the US dollar has fallen between 6%-10% against the pound and you can account for your price increase there.
Not to mention the fact that they will charge the amount they think maximizes their return with respect to present and future sales volume and future market share.
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Post by skyth on May 21, 2011 10:43:31 GMT -5
Would you care to cite the source that says the material costs represent only 2% of overall product costs? Going off of something I read on one of the many threads about the price increase  Basically what I said It has little to do with actual costs, so trying to explain it away as because of costs is just deceptive. |
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Post by travis on May 21, 2011 16:12:08 GMT -5
Skyth, You don't know what your talking about. Your numbers, like most posted, on most forums, are made up. The person that "posted" that has no idea either. Their costs to make mini's are broken into two categories. Labor which is about a third and materials(boxes, plastic, shrink wrap, stickers)which is two thirds. The price increase is not 10% either. If you factor the increase over the entire line it is much lower then that. Some of the cost of the increase is due directly to the loss of sales because on the price increase. I can explain this further if that isn't clear. Please also show me where GW said that the change from metal to plastic would cause the prices for those products to be lower. The cost for them to make may be lower. They never said that the retail price would be lower. Everyone, Everyone is free to have any opinion on anything they want. As I sit here writing this, there is a large number of people preparing for the rapture. Some of which are going off of something they read in one of the many posts about the rapture Anyone can agree or disagree with anything. People shouldn't make statements about things that impact other peoples businesses in negative ways, without having the facts or sources to back them up. I certainly wouldn't go to a forum and spew things about anyone else business or business partners that can take money out of their paycheck or food off their table, without having the correct information. I realize that this is common thing to do these days on the internet. Perhaps people don't realize the actual damage they are doing when they make false or uninformed statements. Why this happens is truly a mystery to me. I guess it is similar to the people that talk about someone when they aren't around and are nice to their face. I am not that guy and I don't run my business that way. There are very few people that don't know where they stand with me. Everyone on this forum can PM, e-mail me, call me, heaven forbid talk to me in person about anything that has to do with this industry. I have zero reason to lie or make anything up. How many times can you lie to someone and have them want to come back to your store or spend any time with you? I guess people could say that their choice not to purchase a product has no impact on me because they are not one of my customers. Which is sorts true, but you are one of my peers customers and your part of the community at large somewhere. I like my peers, I like this community, I don't enjoy price increases either. The people on this forum shop at many different places. My personal experience has been when someone complains about the price of something, they probably shouldn't buy or can't afford that item anyway. |
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Post by skyth on May 21, 2011 17:46:57 GMT -5
Some of the cost of the increase is due directly to the loss of sales because on the price increase. That isn't an actual cost though It just is less unit sales. No, but I find it amusing blaming the price hike on the cost of materials when they went to cheaper materials/manufacturing processes. It's a fact of life that GW will raise prices constantly. They are a business, out to make as much money as they can. (Not that that is a bad thing). GW knows that it's product is a luxury product with a fairly price-inflexible demand and they will charge as much as people will pay. I went and looked at the GW financial statements from 2010, I am amused to find this quote: 'The Company had no goodwill at either year end.' Granted, that means something different from an Accounting perspective, but I am amused. Cost of Goods Sold accounts for roughly 63% of Operating Sales, which includes labor costs, materials, packaging, overhead, etc. Unfortunately, they didn't break down how much the cost of raw materials was. Granted, they did make 432,000 pounds from the value of the dollar versus the pound in 2010. |
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Post by travis on May 21, 2011 22:11:17 GMT -5
Any good business, that can make more money will. Your right, any hobby is a luxury item. Any company not maximizing profits is not run very well.
I can't name a hobby that I have now, that cost the same or is cheaper now then it was when I started the hobby.
Golf - I started before Tiger was around. The first round of golf that I played when I was 9, cost 7 dollars. Last year it cost me well more per round. Not counting that all the equipment cost more too.
Bowling - games used to cost a quarter.
Video Games - I bought Mountain King for my birthday and it cost me 12 dollars at Ames.
Games Workshop - I started Fantasy in 5th edition. The Lizardmen/Britonnian starter cost me 70.00, the Arcane Magic box set cost me 30 or 40. I played Chaos beastmen so I had to buy the Realms of Chaos box set which was another 30 or 40. Metal Ungor with three were 12 a blister, minotaurs were 22, the chariot was 25 they didn't even have a battalion box so that didn't touch the gors that came in packs of two and were metal and god specific. So before I touched a model I was in the hole 130 to 150 and that was in 1997.
I can't get back those rounds of golf, I can't bowl those games again, my equipment from then wouldn't fit me now, I am not sure I could find an Atari to play Mountain King in if I still had the game. My brother still uses my Beastmen. Sure he has had to buy a few more books to keep them current but they still work. I wish I could say the same for my other hobbies.
Given inflation, has the hobby really increased in cost, that much? If prices went down the models you bought would immediately be worth less. This happens a ton in Magic when they reprint that 40 dollar card you had and its now 5.
If your unhappy that you have to pay more for new stuff that's fine. No one wants to pay 6 dollars for something they could have paid 5 dollars for yesterday. On the other hand you can look at every purchase you make, everyday. How many of the products that you buy continue to maintain value. Your car doesn't, your house doesn't, your clothes don't, none of your technology does. If fact most of the good purchase I make during the day turn into nuts within 24 hours.
I look at it this way. Games Workshop has been around for a long time. They have survived where everyone else has failed or never reached the level of success that they have. In a time when everything is depreciating rapidly it's nice to have a hobby that maintain my value and continues to make better products. This hobby isn't for everyone. I am glad that they are profit minded. That means they will be around for another few decades.
As far as material cost being the reason for the price increase, that's what I was told from my rep at GW. I am one of their larger single store accounts. I am going to continue to sell there product because it's a large part of my business. I would continue to sell there product if they said the price increases were due to their stock holders wanting to swim, like Scrooge McDuck in a pool full of British Pounds. They know that. So why would they lie to me? As long as I believe in their product, my customers want to buy their product and they are not doing anything morally or ethically wrong, I would be a fool to own a game store and not to sell the highest grossing miniatures game ever.
Selling less units is a business cost. It's not a fixed cost. It's an inherited cost based on a number of different factors. The loss of unit sales is as large a factor when determining price increases as the actual cost of an increase in materials. When a price goes up there is downward pressure on sales of that item. If a company wants to make up the loss of market share based on the loss of units sold then they need to increase there price per unit to factor in the loss of unit sales as well as any costs from an increase in raw materials. In the end, they need to make more profit on a purchase then they did before, due to the lost sales, that resulted from, the increase in price.
I hope they continue to make money. If they are, then I probably am too.
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Post by fishboy on May 23, 2011 8:32:38 GMT -5
I didn't know you played golf Travis. I suck but enjoy the game so let me know if you want to get together one day and embarrass me on the links heh.
As for the Atari I just gave my old working 2600 to my brother so I did not have to drag it up to NY with me hehe.
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Post by travis on May 23, 2011 18:31:43 GMT -5
Joe,
Please don't take the fact that I started early as any sign of being good. I am still pretty bad. I usually go Sunday mornings early when I go. Prolly some other hackers out here too we might be able to get a 4 some together and play some best ball would be fun.
I try to stay busy. Playing disc golf for the first time tomorrow so I am up for anything.
For the record, I am with you guys. I hate the price hike too. It sucks for me as much if not more then you guys. I can understand people being emotional about it. I had a very long conversation with my rep about the situation and brought up all of the concerns that people voiced. Until there is a better option out there I don't see things changing anytime soon.
One quick nugget though. Mantic games is run by a good amount of ex-GW guys. Their fantasy stuff is awesome and works for Warhammer Fantasy. A little bird told me they were working on some sci-fi stuff. If you not familiar with Mantic look at their stuff. Also look at their pricing.
Cheers
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