NEW Deamons!! A slight review

[pogysnacks]

I haven't really gone in depth on about half of the codex, specifically Nurgle, and Slaanesh demons...well because i never liked nurgle, i dont like looking at the toilet after i take a dump or puke after i puke so i don't really like looking at nurgle anything..Slaanesh simply because the models just arent as visually appealing with clothes on, what can i say? I like boobs that's all.
Well all that beside, they obviously toned down the crazy strong flamers and screamers, not because of player complaints, but simply most WAAC dudes and dudettes were only purchasing flamers, screamers, kairos etc..the screamer/flamer bomb was quite good obviously.
What ive read so far seems rather, well "chaotic", with a general nerf to a decent amount of unit (bloodcrushers lacking armor, eeeek not for me), no more silly kairos shenanigans (pretty much a copy paste of the previous fantasy incarnation, minus the "knows all spells from chosen mastery), and generally cheaper troops..the result leading to the new 40k horde army, seriously 20 letters for 200 pts, pretty decent cost imo...
Greater demons look like a mirror from their fantasy counterparts (the old army book, not the new one, havnt seen that one but briefly), high cost, rediculous stats, great abilities personifying their respective god's, with random gifts..specifically the bloodthirster is a monster..granted getting him in combat without getting him shot to hell probably wont happen, anyone with half a mind will probably shred him asap, if not he would wreak absolute havoc...another perk is for 1 hq slot you get 4 heralds...yea cheap above average guys with decent perks, Tzeentch and nurgle heralds looking to be the favored choice for anyone looking to get the most out of the heralds..Nurgle 70 base for lvl 1 w access to biomancy and plague, 120 base to make him lvl 2, biomancy can make them some bad dudes...plague isnt too bad either..Rancid Visitations could wreak havoc on all the t3 running around (yea you IG)..Heralds of tzeentch have access to divinity, and change..lvl 2 for 70pts base (after 25 pt upgrade, upgrade also applied to nurgle heralds too), pretty solid discount caster...csm allies and shooty horrors with 4 of those beasts, hmmm pretty good spread of prescience, and a good possibility to get misfortune..
Troops are a lot of the same, plaguebearers 90 for 10, no feel no pain, 1 pt tougher than the other lesser demons, pink horrors generate warp charges per number of models in the unit (much like power dice in the old fantasy rules..another copy paste)10 generate 1, 11-15 generate 2, 16-20 generate 3..works rather well with the flickering fires of tzenntch power (3d6 shots for 2 charges, 4d6 for 3..90pts for 10...letters arent too bad, 10 for 100 pts, pure assault, str 4 furious charge, hellblades are ap3 etc, generic khorne unit, love the little buggers though..demonettes are pretty good 180 pts for 20 demonettes and a crap ton of rending attacks..so tzeentch, slaanesh, nurgle all 180 pts for 20 dudes/dudettes, khorne 200 (before upgrades)..rather hordy numbers, still rather solid choices in all 4, although plaguebearers took a huge hit losing fnp..nurglings are 45pts for 3 bases, got infiltrate though.

[pogysnacks]

Onto elites we go, bloodcrushers are 45 apiece but no longer have a good armor save, strong on the charge, but toughness 4 relying on 6+/5+ and 3 wounds, well 10 space marines could deal some damage just with bolters..not really worth it points wise..flamers are no longer meq killers but with an ap4 flamer they aren't terrible, just probably not worth it too anyone competitive minded as there are a lot of marine armies rolling around out there that may thank you for FNP after they make some saves against you, still 6 flamers with str 4 ap 4 templates can generate a good amount of wounds..i still like them and their power is fickle but chaotic so i like!
Beasts of nurgle got good, id say really good, ability to counter charge an enemy unit that successfully charges a friendly unit within 12 inches is pretty cool, slime trail to force a disordered charge on an enemy that charges your beast(s), it will not die special rule, and a possible 8 attacks on the charge...poisoned 4+ for 52 pts, a pretty solid disruptive tarpit, t5 with 4 wounds..not bad at all. Fiends are pretty solid too, 4 rending attacks on the charge, str 4 initiative 6 3 wounds, 105pts for 3 35 to include any extra, and they force a -1 to psychic tests to enemy psykers within 12 in..also after they successfully charge something, it receives a major deduction to its initiative..not too shabby..didnt really go in depth on fast attack choices but plague drones stand out the most, and have upgrades to either boost poison attacks to 3+, or make one attack cause instant death, rather tough unit too, t5 3 wounds (note all nurgle units with plague sword have touch of rust, basically gauss weapons on a 6 they glance ) screamers slash has no ap, and they can all deal one ap2 attack apiece, or 3 regular str4....seekers are cheap, can outflank and can be 20 strong for 12pts each..the hellflayer isnt bad either, gets d6 hammer of wrath attacks per hull point remaining, and gains attatcks for wounds dealt by hammer of wrath..hounds are pretty much the same, furies are jump infantry and cheap as hell with the ability to take marks..heavies arent bad, pretty much all the new chariots, soulgrinder that can get skyfire, and if you take a greater demon than you can take demon princes with the same mark for a heavy support choice (choices), DP's are Hq otherwise, and like their csm counterparts can get expensive very quickly..

[pogysnacks]

All in all i really like the fluffy, balanced feel the codex has, as well as its randomness (warp storm table, demonic instability, among other random sillyness)..no its not the oh nuts screamer/flamer army it was recently, nor do you have demonic assault, but the ability to deepstrike is still there..if youre looking for an army to min/max to the utmost and WAAC, this is not the army for you, from front to back you can tell its meant to be fun, it can still be competitive but there are a decent amount of lists that on paper will probably steamroll most of what you can make from this codex (we all know it comes down to player skill and dice, but some lists are just better than others) ..its fluffy and synergizes well with CSM, it reminds me a lot of the Skaven randomness from fantasy that can either be really good, or screw you royally, but in the end is hilarious.. Really cool book, with great internal balance, a lot of silly randomness, and a reminder of what the game is about: FUN..but again if youre a win at all costs, grind everyone into the ground kinda player, its probably not the army for you (see grey knights, IG, Crons, Dark Eldar for that, probably the best min maxers in the game)

[professor]

I think you are ignoring some of the hidden synergies that exist in the Daemons list in these evaluations. For example, Bloodcrushers hit like a truck (still) and with a Grimoire of True Names or a casting of Invisibility become a fast durable unit. Both are not 100%, but 3+ invulnerable saves look interesting - so too does a 3+ or 2+ cover save on a unit that can only be hit on 5's.

[pogysnacks]

Yea I did miss a few things I really didn't go too in depth..all in all before I dust off my khorne demons, I'd have to say this codex is phenomenally written and after looking at that aforementioned combo you pointed out..well bloodcruhers look far more appealing, my biggest problem is finding enough space to field all the herald goodness and a greater demon..lots of choices lots of combos..I'm liking the silly idea of running a handful of furies because they're so cheap and would make a nice screen..in my guy I feel like this codex really needs csm to maximize its potential