2250 Dwarven Army

[onewingedangelo1]

2250 Pts - Dwarfs Roster - Thunder from the Hills

Dwarf Lord (1#, 296 Pts)
1 Dwarf Lord @ 296 Pts
General; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shieldbearers
1 Runic Armor @ [75] Pts
Master Rune of Adamant; Rune of Resistance; Rune of Stone
1 Runic Talisman @ [45] Pts
Master Rune of Spite

Ironbreakers (23#, 379 Pts)
22 Ironbreakers @ 379 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield
1 Ironbeard @ [25] Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield
1 Runic Standard @ [50] Pts
Rune of Battle; Rune of Stoicism

Thane (1#, 115 Pts)
1 Thane @ 115 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
1 Runic Armor @ [5] Pts
Rune of Stone
1 Runic Talisman @ [45] Pts
Master Rune of Challenge; Rune of Brotherhood

Dwarf Rangers (24#, 410 Pts)
23 Longbeard Rangers @ 410 Pts
Upgrade to Longbeards; Upgrade to Rangers; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Throwing Axe; Heavy Armour; Scouts
1 Veteran @ [25] Pts
Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Throwing Axe; Heavy Armour
1 Runic Standard @ [25] Pts
Rune of Stoicism

Dwarf Longbeards (30#, 385 Pts)
29 Longbeards @ 385 Pts
Upgrade to Longbeards; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield
1 Veteran @ [22] Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield

Dwarf Warriors (10#, 80 Pts)
10 Dwarf Warriors @ 80 Pts
Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour

Artillery Battery (4#, 120 Pts)
1 Organ Gun @ 120 Pts
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Hand Weapon; Light Armour

Artillery Battery (4#, 120 Pts)
1 Organ Gun @ 120 Pts
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Hand Weapon; Light Armour

Artillery Battery (5#, 125 Pts)
1 Cannon @ 125 Pts
Rune of Burning; Rune of Reloading; Cannon
3 Crew @ [0] Pts
Hand Weapon; Light Armour
1 Engineer @ [20] Pts
Hand Weapon; Brace of Pistols; Light Armour

Master Engineer (1#, 75 Pts)
1 Master Engineer @ 75 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
1 Runic Armor @ [5] Pts
Rune of Stone

Runesmith (1#, 145 Pts)
1 Runesmith @ 145 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
1 Runic Talisman @ [75] Pts
Master Rune of Balance; Rune of Spellbreaking (x1)

Total Roster Cost: 2250

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Comments? Questions? I am fairly new so I probably don't know what I am doing ^_^;;;

Probably goes without saying but Lord goes with Ironbreakers, Thane goes with Rangers, and Runesmith goes with Warriors

I could be wrong on this but I think this army scored a 13 comp according to your comp rules.

[boldo]

Wow I hate it. No really I think this is the worst army I have seen in a long time. You really hate when your lord dies. T6 Sv1+ rerolled with a 4+ ward. Wow that is over 100 pts put into saving him and I am unconvienced you need any of it but if you have only 3 units than he is quite a bit of your hitting power. Why Ironbreakers over Hammerers. Is the 1 better armor save really better than the great weapon choice, stubborn and immune to fear and terror which the hammerers get. 24 Ironbreakers with stoicism seems a bit much. They should be big enough as is. 29 Longbeards seems a bit large too and I am really unsure if 24 longbeard rangers with stoicism is really a good number either.

Okay here is the really problem. Because you have so few units they hae to large and powerful otherwise when they take some casualties you have no toys to play with. So you make then bigger and more expensive which makes it all the more important that they remain useful so you throw more points at them. Meanwhile you can not cover the board and will get flanked and just lose. I also think the Engineer is jsut worse than another war machine.

Try this for a list
DwarfLord rune of Stone and Iron x2, Gw on shieldbearers.
Thane BSB rune of courage and anything else
Runesmith runr of balance
20 Hammerers standard Musician Champion (FC) Shield
20 ironbreakers FC
25 warriors FC shield
25 Longbeards FC Shield
16 Rangers with throwing Axe FC
2 organ guns
Cannon rune of forging
Canon Engineer rune of reloading

This has the elite infantry you want, more shooting, and tough enough character. I did not do the points but htis should be close to right. If this is too harse I am sorry but I acan also do more indepth if you like . Read the Dwarf Tactica at www.boldo.com/miniatures/warhammer/wrhm_tactics_dwarf6e.html
this might be useful and I would love to discuss ideas more with you.

Boldo

[onewingedangelo1]

Reasoning for Ironbreakers over Hammerers...

I may of thought this out wrong but Hammerers don't really get to attack. Their armor saves aren't really great and they go last in the attack so when I go to attack the will get off maybe 2 or 3 attacks assuming only 1/2 of them hit thats only really 1 kill where they just took out 2 or 3 or mine, I have Battle and Stoicism so I don't lose by much, and I am stubborn so I stay there... next turn... same thing... I am not going anywhere and not achieving as much and giving them more time to flank me.

Ironbreakers on the other hand..... 2 plus armor save in combat which at most extreme cases would get moved up to a 4 plus which is normal. I am now losing less guys on the attack so that I have more guys on the counter attack (cuz I am a dwarf.. I am slow) more attacks means I am more likely to kill some of them. Now I have Battle and Stoicism which means I will likely win the combat and force them to flee, my pursuing isn't as great as other armies but I could still get them on the pursue so on average I am Killing more often then I am just sitting there become a target.

My Longbeard Rangers.... The whole point of these guys are to distract the enemy enough to get my fighting force into combat. This doesn't mean I am just trying to throw them away but if done right I could take out a portion of their army if not enough just to keep their decently powerful units at bay for a while

The Rune of Challenge is in there to help them take control of this by calling out units that I don't want advancing on me because they will either Flee or Fight me.

The Master Engineer is in there so that my cannon can "One Shot" things like steam tanks or big guys with a lot of wounds and/or toughness. He makes my Cannon more powerful so that I will do more damage in a single blow. Now I know that since I am taking him over another cannon they can just try to set up around it or somewhere so that I can't shoot their big guy... I figure between the cannon (which if i position in a way that can cover most of the map it will be good enough) and the 2 organ guns which aren't that bad at taking out units of men or one single big guy I should be okay. He can also entrench any of my artillery, making it hard for people to just shoot off my crew and even give me a bonus for when they try to change at it.

[boldo]

If there is a combat with attackers let us look at 6 attacks
s of a IB Ham Ham+shield
3 .16 .66 .33
4 .5 1.16 .75
5 .75 1.5 1
So the hammers without shield lose twice as many guys but we are not talking 3+ here. Further with shield they are roughly equal to the ironbreakers. Now if you took the GW though then when the 6 Ironbreakers attack back you get roughly 1.5 wounds and the 5 hammerers get 2.5, but the hammerers are not saved and the iron breakers wounds will allow saves so the final result will be Hammerers +1.5 and the Ironbreakers +1 in combat resolution. if you use shields the attack back are the same but you are still stubborn and immune to fear and terror. If you must win put stoicism and battle on the hammerers too and this unit will be better than the Iron breakers.

Okay Master Engineer improves the cannon's average wounds from 2 to 3.5. Thus his valune to a cannon is to increase its value by 75% but he costs 80% of a cannon. Now while he does allow that great turn where you get 6 wounds he also gives you a turn with 1 wound, even average does not kill the big thing. Why not just get anohter cannon. This costs you 15pts and makes you shooting more versitile and gives you a better chance verse the big thing.

I like rangers I just think that 29 is huge. Would 24 or 19 or even 14 be any worse? If you are that big why the throwing axes? If you are ranked up they get only 6 shots for 29 pts if not then you lose rank bonus and the rune of challenge is not so useful. Finally a unit this big needs to get lucky to use the scout deployment as it is roughly 5 by 4. Thus a 6" woods may be too small to deploy in, and there will seldom be a hill large enough to deploy behind when this large. Finally, even if they can scout they are still out there by themselves for a few turns. can't an opponent fight them and then move a unit to the flank and beat them? I think this might even win the game right away as you give up 625 pts. Then the opponent can avoid you for the rest of the game. Also you have 2 units motoring down the board supported possibly by the 10 man wonder unit. What will keep the opponent from flanking one or both of these units (another reason the hammerers are better)?

As a concept the death star army is interesting. You form up a few unbeatable units and head off to destroy new worlds. Good examples of this are a unit of 23 Ironguts with BSB tyrand and 2 butchers, or the unit of 50 White lions. Both these are fast, immune to fear and huge. You have formed a two unit death star which is slow and not even so awesome. Why not 50 hammerers with BSB rune of battle, and fear with the unit carrying something else? Add a few killer characters and you have a unit. Well the proble is the same the opponent can flank you or avoid you as they see fit.

So to avoid being flanked or ignored I like more units.

Boldo

[onewingedangelo1]

could you explain those random numbers in the beginning? I assume they are dealing with how many wounds you take or deal... I am not sure.. you kinda just put numbers up there unlabled....

I guess the master engineer is a player preference kinda thing... I feel that doing more damage on average with one shot is better then dealing more damage over the course of two shots since that increase your chance to miss... and misfire... not to mention that who is to say that both cannons will be able to hit the same target... so just because you take 2 cannons to match the power of one cannon and a master engineer doesn't mean that you can dish out the same amount of damage in one turn.

The point of having such a big ranger unit is so that they fight for longer. With more people I increase the changes of living. Also with the throwing axes I can deploy from out of a terrain piece and since I can move and shoot I can hit something without charging them. This could be useful when fighting something like ranged attack unit who generally don't plan on fighting often, and then on next turn I charge them... and (i might be wrong on this one) if my charge doesn't work then I more likely with still be within 6" to fire at them again with the hand axes (or can you not move and shoot if your move was a charge?)

[onewingedangelo1]

This army took 2nd place at the Tourny I went to this weekend losing only to a tricked out Teclis(spelling?) Army list... (Curse that infernal elf) Had I not of miss guessed 2 inches off on my Rune of Challenge I could of either fought with (which i doubt he would of accepted) or made him flee the unit Teclis was in, which would of helped me survive a bit more.

[boldo]

Well I guess that is that then. You have a good working army and it needs no more improvement. Congratulations and good luck with it.

Boldo

[adsvampire]

Teclis wasn't tricked out. He was the same as always. And he did next to nothing in that game.

That did hurt to use the MR of challenge at the wrong time though.

[onewingedangelo1]

thats true he didnt do that much comparatively from the other games... but he did kill off a good deal of units from my main fighting group which did help some.. I was losing that match either way