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Post by skyth on May 5, 2008 11:00:45 GMT -5
Number Unit
1 Grand Master (Shield, Dawn Armor, Sword of Justice, Holy Relic)
1 Battle Wizard (Level 2, Barded Horse, Spectulum, sword of might)
1 Battle Wizard (Level 2, Seal of Destruction, Biting Blade)
1 Captain (BSB, Full Plate, Griffon Standard)
24 Spearnen (Shields, Full Command)
9 Swordsman Detachment
5 Handgunner detachment
24 Spearnen (Shields, Full Command)
9 Swordsman Detachment
5 Handgunner detachment
8 Knights (Full Command, Warbanner)
12 Handgunners (Marksman)
1 Great Cannon
1 Great Cannon
1 Mortar
10 Crossbowmen (Marksman)
10 Crossbowmen (Marksman)
6 Pistoliers (Outrider w/Repeater pistols, musician)
1 Hellblaster
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Post by Norton on May 5, 2008 11:24:47 GMT -5
It's very top heavy.
Lots of shooting, but no core blocks to take a beating if anything does actually survive to make it to you.
What does this army do against the 200 skaven army?
Even a Fair and balanced (tm) vampire army will walk through 30 handgun shots a turn and still slap those spearmen in the face.
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Post by skyth on May 5, 2008 11:42:31 GMT -5
I assume you mean with characters? I tend to design my armies that way so that I can play with all the cool toys *shrugs* I have 2 big core blocks with detachments for denying rank bonuses. Would have liked to take more, but the boxed sets give you more missile troops than anything else. Dunno, never have faced Skaven. The army would probably be as 'Fair and Balanced' as Fox news is...  Though it is a bit more than 30 handgun shots/turn  Granted, I haven't played Fantasy in years, so I am a bit inexperienced in how things work. |
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Post by johnboo on May 5, 2008 14:08:46 GMT -5
Top-heavy as in shooting, characters are fine. Is this just a list to field "what you own" or a list to play "what you want"? Looks like a IG army to me I'd venture to say you will have a hard time deploying all those shooting units without getting in the way of each other. If you have the models, i think you will find less "stuff" and more blocks (infantry/cavalry) will give you a better chance as an "all comers" list. |
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Post by skyth on May 5, 2008 15:07:50 GMT -5
It's pretty much what I own. The being able to place and not get in the way of other things was a concern of mine.
I have currently (mostly) put together:
1 Character on horse.
1 Battle Standard Bearers
1 Wizard on a horse
1 Wizard on Foot
1 Engineer
2 Cannons
1 Hellblaster
2 Infantry commands
32 Handgunners+2 Marksmen
8 Knights (Actually only the horses are put together)
16 Swordsmen
30 Spearmen
I have to put together:
Artillery piece (will be a Mortar)
Box of Knights
2 Boxes of Pistoleers
Wizard on foot
Character on horse
2 Boxes of ranged state troops
2 Boxes of state troops
(Basically I picked up one of the army boxes to fill out my ranks)
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Post by skyth on May 5, 2008 19:14:29 GMT -5
I could replace the hellblaster, handgunners and one crossbow unit with a 10 strong unit of knights and buff the remaining crossbows up a couple models. Would that be better?
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Post by adsvampire on May 5, 2008 20:03:56 GMT -5
1 Grand Master (Shield, Dawn Armor, Sword of Justice, Holy Relic)
I'm nt a fan of the Sword of Justice. I'd recommend the sword of might instead. Anyway, consider this equipment loadout for a different option: Shield, Hammer of Judgement, Dawn Armor, The White Cloak. The hammer gives you something that wound pretty much anything (except a stank) with the right rolls. The White Cloak will give you greater rsistance vs the new tzeentch deamons (since they ALL have flaming attacks) and any other flaming attacks coming your way (I predict an increase since the amount of regen has increased).
1 Battle Wizard (Level 2, Barded Horse, Spectulum, sword of might)
1 Battle Wizard (Level 2, Seal of Destruction, Biting Blade)
Meh, I'd rate the Orb of Thunder and Rod of Power as being better than the above in almost every way. Giving wizards magical swords is not the best idea either, even when they have the speculum.
1 Captain (BSB, Full Plate, Griffon Standard)
There is not reason to not give this guy a mount ... unless you don't have the model ... then you have a good reason.
24 Spearnen (Shields, Full Command)
9 Swordsman Detachment
5 Handgunner detachment
24 Spearnen (Shields, Full Command)
9 Swordsman Detachment
5 Handgunner detachment
Interesting and cool options here. I like them. However, free companies are probably better in the long run as detachments (in place of the swordsmen). Also, I'd recommend Archer detachments over the handgunners ... if you don't have that then consider x-bowmen ... greater range means they can sit further back.
8 Knights (Full Command, Warbanner)
I think you'd be better off with 2 units of 5. Its fine if you are not willing to do this.
12 Handgunners (Marksman)
I'd drop 2 guys for a hochland just for the fun of it. 2 extra shots won't be missed.
1 Great Cannon
1 Great Cannon
1 Mortar
Fine here.
10 Crossbowmen (Marksman)
10 Crossbowmen (Marksman)
There is no reason to take 2 units of 10. Make one of the units 2 detachments of 5 for the other unit. The fewer possible sources of panic the better. Also, having units that are cheap and don;t cause panic is extremely good.
6 Pistoliers (Outrider w/Repeater pistols, musician)
1 Hellblaster
Good here. However, IMHO you have enough shooting already to be able to drop the helblaster and use that extra box of pistoliers you have. Consider a unit of outriders to fill the void (if you have the special slot) otherwise I'd go for more knights and/or some huntsmen.
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boldo
Moderator 
The card carrying
Posts: 646 
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Post by boldo on May 7, 2008 13:33:21 GMT -5
Okay Adam did a nice job on the Characters and my only suggestion is how about a warrior priest. What I did wa sarrange you available models into units and this is what I came out with. It is not perfect but it is playable. There are also a lot of choice I made which I do not play but I tried to keep with what you had in your origional army
3 units of 5 Knights with full comand
25 spearman with full command shield and 10 crossbowmen and 9 swordsmen
25 swordsman with full command and 10 crossbowmen and 7 halbidiers
mortar
great cannon
6 pistoliers with muscians and marksman with repeater pistol
5 outriders with musician and champion
2 units of 12 handgunners with champion with hochland long rifle and 5 marksmen
This comes to 1817 so for a 2250 pt army it leaves 433 pts for characters if you want more I would drop one of the units of knights or handgunners.
Boldo
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Post by skyth on May 7, 2008 14:21:41 GMT -5
I appreciate the advice, but I'm a little confused by some things-Maybe my inexperience is showing... Okay Adam did a nice job on the Characters and my only suggestion is how about a warrior priest. What I did wa sarrange you available models into units and this is what I came out with. It is not perfect but it is playable. There are also a lot of choice I made which I do not play but I tried to keep with what you had in your origional army 3 units of 5 Knights with full comand Why wouldn't I want a rank with this? Granted, I have 20 Knights (I counted wrong) and 3 mounted characters. I don't have the option for 34 swordsmen plus 7 Halbediers. (don't have the models for it). I know swordsmen rock (And I would take more if I could), but I thought the general consensus was that Halbediers were garbage *shrugs* Why crossbowmen instead of Handgunners as the ranged one? And why so many? My original plan was to have the spears to take the charge and the swords to counter-charge in support and take away ranks. Only have 10 models for pistoliers/outriders. However, I don't understand why anyone would take outriders. Fast Cav with a move or shoot weapon doesn't seem that useful to me. I thought you could only have 1 marksman per unit? Am I missing something? |
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Post by johnboo on May 7, 2008 14:49:57 GMT -5
In general, ranks heavy cav is wasted points - they cost alot per model, they dont get to fight, and in most cases one casualty and you have lost your expensive rank bonus (assuming ranked 5 wide). That said, you will have a better unit strength and potentially ranks for combat res....try both and see what works for you.
Swordsmen as your main unit are better than spears - harder to wound with a 4+ save in H2H and WS4. Halberds as detachments are nice since they are strength 4 on the flank if they get to do their detachment trick.
Crossbows have a longer range that handgunners. you can deploy deeper so its possible an opponent needs another turn of movement to reach them, or you can actually get first turn casualties since you can fire into your opponents deployment zone.
Outriders - think multiple ranged shots, then can skedaddle out of the way when something is threatening them. Not to mention a solid rank remover with a 16" flank charge when needed. Believe me, this unit is brutal in the hands of a good player.
Yes, one marksman - not sure what boldo was meaning there...
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Post by skyth on May 7, 2008 15:10:08 GMT -5
Swordsmen as your main unit are better than spears - harder to wound with a 4+ save in H2H and WS4. Halberds as detachments are nice since they are strength 4 on the flank if they get to do their detachment trick. I'd take all Swords if I could The thing is Spear's advantage (extra attacks) is lost if they charge, so wouldn't you want the swordsmen to be in units that charge (or counter-charge in support) and the spears to be the one taking the charge if you had to choose? |
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boldo
Moderator
The card carrying
Posts: 646
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Post by boldo on May 7, 2008 16:48:25 GMT -5
The 5 marksmen are my mistake as I meant a detachment of 5 handgunners. As for the models thing you have 30 spearmen and box with lots of extra bits a little converson makes some spearmen into halbertiers, the outriders box has lots of extra bits and a knight can easily be converted into extra pistoliers/outriders. A handgunner costs 8 an outrider costs 21 and gets 3 shots with the same to hit number. The outriders also have close to 360 vision and are better at getting out of the way. You seem to have the making of a shooty army and they are the best point for point shooter in the army. Halbertiers are great detachments as they are cheap and have better strength the other option is free company as they get an extra attack. The crossbowmen as a detachment are there to put down and stay as a shooting unit which does not cause panic. As for the knights I like units of 15 but others disagree. You went for smaller units with your other choices so I went with smaller knight units. 5 is way better than 8 as a unit and 3 units is there mainly to get more deployments.
But what do I know.
Boldo
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Post by skyth on May 7, 2008 18:00:07 GMT -5
Well, I appreciate the advice. I also like to understand the why's so as to make me a better player.
I hadn't thought of trying to convert the spear I have to hallies. Granted, they're the old one-piece spearmen from the last boxed set, and I only have one painted (I'm giving them red shirts because I know a lot of them will die...)
Plus I'd probably be better off with 19 knights plus a hero. So I should be able to convert one to a pistoleer or outrider. In my list, I had 10 mounted guys for the unit (The GM, the Wizard, and 8 knights).
You've given me a lot of ideas to work with as I put things together.
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Though it is a bit more than 30 handgun shots/turn 
