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Post by chaoticprout on Oct 29, 2008 1:20:06 GMT -5
Daemon attempt.
Hi everybody, first time fantasy player, just got started. I took a shot at making a 1500 point daemon army, tell me what you think:
Thanks for the games tonight at RWAG, learned a lot. Here's my shot at
a 1500 point army so far:
16 bloodletters w/ the skulltaker so I can get rank 4. Got a banner in
there too.
19 daemonetters w/ herald. Herald is level 1 wizard with succur of
chaos. My thought there is to give the plaguebearers Always Strike
First since they are I1. She is also a battle standard bearer with the
+D3 combat resolution banner.
16 plaguebearers w/ herald. Herald is on Palanquin, depending on If i
free up points later I might give him gifts.
2 sets of 3 screamers (2 sets so I have one more unit to place on the
board strategically)
3 flamers.
Exactly 1500 points. Thoughts?
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Post by johnboo on Oct 29, 2008 7:21:32 GMT -5
Welcome to the hobby & the DaBoys board!
Hmmm - Lets see here. Reading through your list, I think you might have some rules mixed up, but thats expected. Its a pretty complicated game!
The slaanesh herald will have to roll for her spell, she doesnt have the ability to choose her spell (unless of course it is the first spell on the list, the default spell). Choosing spells in the game is a very powerful ability, and very few mages have that ability.
Also, the locus of slaanesh (give strike first) will only work for the daemonettes, it will not work on the plaguebearers, unfortunately.
Overall, not too bad for a starting list. Skulltaker is on a juggernaut right? Thats the only way he will got you full ranks in the bloodletters. I assume this is all the models you have available to play with? When I type up your army in armybuilder I came up with 1489pts.
It seems as though you have not added command to your ranked units. Bigger units like that really should have a banner & musician, champions might be considered if there is a character in the unit that you dont want to fight challenges (like your daemonette unit!) Most stuff these units will be fighting will have a banner, thus you will already be down 1 in combat res.
I'm not sure just a level 1 mage is worth it in your current list. You get a 3rd dispel dice, which is nice, but you certainly wont be getting your spell off unless you are very lucky. 50pts for a dispel dice is pretty steep but then again you have 3 dice to stop an opponents spell. Magic in this game is pretty much go big or go home. Since you are playing 1500 points, "going big" isnt really an option for you unless you mix in more tzeentch units.
Give Slime Trail gift to the nurgle herald. You can add it now without changing anything if I added your list correctly. It will make your plaguebearers much better. Or consider fitting in 25pts to get noxious vapors (units always strike last in base to base with herald) as you were thinking the slaanesh herald would do for you.
I'm not used to making 1500pt lists - tough choices have to be made compared to larger point armies, so alot of my comments may not be possible.
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Post by chaoticprout on Oct 29, 2008 13:14:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the help! Here are my thoughts at the moment.
Hmmm - Lets see here. Reading through your list, I think you might have some rules mixed up, but thats expected. Its a pretty complicated game!
The slaanesh herald will have to roll for her spell, she doesnt have the ability to choose her spell (unless of course it is the first spell on the list, the default spell). Choosing spells in the game is a very powerful ability, and very few mages have that ability.
Magic's confused me a bit, just got that I have to roll for it haha.
Also, the locus of slaanesh (give strike first) will only work for the daemonettes, it will not work on the plaguebearers, unfortunately.
This I understood, but what I meant was that the 3rd spell in the lore of slaanesh lets you on a 10+ give always strike first to a unit within 18". My hope was to band these 2 together and beef up the bearers.
Overall, not too bad for a starting list. Skulltaker is on a juggernaut right? Thats the only way he will got you full ranks in the bloodletters. I assume this is all the models you have available to play with? When I type up your army in armybuilder I came up with 1489pts.
At first I actually didn't have skulltaker on juggernaut and all my units had a banner. I'm sort of confused as to how skulltaker off juggernaut works, because it's a 40mm base. How do I make a rank of 5 with 25mm bases and 1 40mm base?
It seems as though you have not added command to your ranked units. Bigger units like that really should have a banner & musician, champions might be considered if there is a character in the unit that you dont want to fight challenges (like your daemonette unit!) Most stuff these units will be fighting will have a banner, thus you will already be down 1 in combat res.
Like I said above, I'm trying to get a high combat res since that seems to be a daemon weakpoint, If I roll 7+ on the leadership roll models start flying off. I'm trying to squeeze in rank 4 for all units and a banner, that''s my hope at the moment.
I'm not sure just a level 1 mage is worth it in your current list. You get a 3rd dispel dice, which is nice, but you certainly wont be getting your spell off unless you are very lucky. 50pts for a dispel dice is pretty steep but then again you have 3 dice to stop an opponents spell. Magic in this game is pretty much go big or go home. Since you are playing 1500 points, "going big" isnt really an option for you unless you mix in more tzeentch units.
My main idea was for the third dispel dice. The first few games I played at RIT I learned that 2 dispel dice don't really do anything. That was my main thought to be honest.
Give Slime Trail gift to the nurgle herald. You can add it now without changing anything if I added your list correctly. It will make your plaguebearers much better. Or consider fitting in 25pts to get noxious vapors (units always strike last in base to base with herald) as you were thinking the slaanesh herald would do for you.
I completely forgot about slime trail and plan on adding it once I can. That seems to be HUGE.
I'm not used to making 1500pt lists - tough choices have to be made compared to larger point armies, so alot of my comments may not be possible.
Thanks for the help again, much appreciated.
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Post by johnboo on Oct 29, 2008 14:08:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the help! Here are my thoughts at the moment. <SNIP> At first I actually didn't have skulltaker on juggernaut and all my units had a banner. I'm sort of confused as to how skulltaker off juggernaut works, because it's a 40mm base. How do I make a rank of 5 with 25mm bases and 1 40mm base? <SNIP> My main idea was for the third dispel dice. <SNIP> Thanks for the help again, much appreciated. Skulltaker on foot would only be on a 25mm. I'm relatively sure theres a model for him on foot. <shrug?> Different bases combined in units is something GW still hasnt gotten right. In your case, a model on 40mm (juggernaut) in a ranked unit is generally accepted to occupy 4 "spaces", 2 in two consecutive ranks. Though you wont find this in a rulebook. Regarding the 3rd dispel dice - yeah, you are kinda stuck in the daemon army. High point cost magic is one of the few "bad" things in an otherwise very strong book. |
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Post by chaoticprout on Oct 29, 2008 15:27:27 GMT -5
Skulltaker on foot would only be on a 25mm. I'm relatively sure theres a model for him on foot.
The skulltaker on foot model is actually 40mm. The bloodcrushers(which is the bloodletter on juggernaut) is 50mm, so if I were to convert the skulltaker on juggernaut, it would be 50mm. My issue is that taking him on foot is 40mm w/ 25mm which confuses me.
Different bases combined in units is something GW still hasnt gotten right. In your case, a model on 40mm (juggernaut) in a ranked unit is generally accepted to occupy 4 "spaces", 2 in two consecutive ranks. Though you wont find this in a rulebook.
If this is true, I can roll with the 40mm skulltaker and only need 16 bloodletters as I currently have, correct?
Regarding the 3rd dispel dice - yeah, you are kinda stuck in the daemon army. High point cost magic is one of the few "bad" things in an otherwise very strong book.
Gotcha, thanks.
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Post by johnboo on Oct 29, 2008 16:34:10 GMT -5
[ The skulltaker on foot model is actually 40mm. The bloodcrushers(which is the bloodletter on juggernaut) is 50mm, so if I were to convert the skulltaker on juggernaut, it would be 50mm. My issue is that taking him on foot is 40mm w/ 25mm which confuses me. If this is true, I can roll with the 40mm skulltaker and only need 16 bloodletters as I currently have, correct? Hmmm - Skulltaker is on foot, and on a 25mm in the picture. Maybe you have the herald on juggernaut model? No big deal. If a model is (correctly) mounted on a bigger base, you can get away with it taking up extra spaces and no one will usually give you a hard time. |
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Post by chaoticprout on Oct 29, 2008 17:07:32 GMT -5
[ The skulltaker on foot model is actually 40mm. The bloodcrushers(which is the bloodletter on juggernaut) is 50mm, so if I were to convert the skulltaker on juggernaut, it would be 50mm. My issue is that taking him on foot is 40mm w/ 25mm which confuses me. If this is true, I can roll with the 40mm skulltaker and only need 16 bloodletters as I currently have, correct? Hmmm - Skulltaker is on foot, and on a 25mm in the picture. Maybe you have the herald on juggernaut model? No big deal. If a model is (correctly) mounted on a bigger base, you can get away with it taking up extra spaces and no one will usually give you a hard time. Bah, that explains why I was "missing" a 40mm base with my spearhead...I put skulltaker on a 40 instead of a 25. My bad. -_-v |
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Post by dwarfpower on Oct 29, 2008 18:13:45 GMT -5
I noticed that you were trying to get "rank 4" in with 16 man units. To my knowledge 4 people isn't enough to get a rank/combat reso bonus... it requires 5 so you might want to make them 15 or 20 man groups (unless there is some demon rule about ranks)
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Post by chaoticprout on Oct 29, 2008 22:14:15 GMT -5
I noticed that you were trying to get "rank 4" in with 16 man units. To my knowledge 4 people isn't enough to get a rank/combat reso bonus... it requires 5 so you might want to make them 15 or 20 man groups (unless there is some demon rule about ranks) Well it was 16 + the 50mm model which takes the space of 4 models, so 4 ranks of 5. |
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Post by dwarfpower on Oct 30, 2008 18:56:17 GMT -5
okay, didnt notice that befor just thought id mention it because when i just started i thought that you could get a rank bonus from 4
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Post by chaoticprout on Nov 1, 2008 1:40:52 GMT -5
Alrighty, so here's my revised list:
Skulltaker w/ 19 bloodletters, full command.
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Siren Song w/ 19 daemonettes, full command
Herald of Nurgle w/ Slime Trail, Palanquin, BSB w/ 16 plaguebearers, banner and instrument
Flamers of Tzeentch x 4
Screamers of Tzeentch x 3
Screamers of Tzeentch x 3
Thoughts? Now i have 3 core choices with full rank, banners, and nice heralds. Any ideas? I did lose the 3rd dispel dice but now I have a tricked out setup.
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Post by johnboo on Nov 2, 2008 12:25:40 GMT -5
Looks good - try it out and tell us how it went!
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