Post by seveneleven on May 27, 2010 18:29:16 GMT -5
Hey everyone. MajorSOB asked me to give my opinion on what was going on in here because of my experience working with Games Workshop organizing tourneys and games days, mianly out of the Buffalo store (may it rest in peace). You all seam to be doing perfectly fine but I did want to say a couple a things:
1. A tournament by definition is designed to be a competitive affair between players. Any rule limiting army composition does in fact go against this principle, however...
2. Having a comp score to grade army lists will keep games much more competitive. As organizers your job is to make sure people are happy and want to return next year. It was common policy to have all army lists submitted at least a week in advance. At this point the people running the tourney would grade the lists and set up roughly 2/3 of the matches that would take place. We refered to this as 'league play'. It would match armies of similar comp score against each other to determine skill based on ability not 'cheese'.
3. Scores from the first 2/3 would be tallied and brackets would be redrawn based on match performance with tie-breakers going to the list with the better comp score. Terrible players would get to fight terrible player (boosting confidence for next time), average players playing average players (a best of the rest), and finally a tournament bracket comprised of the best players at the tournament. Winners would be drawn from this bracket based solely on table top performance as comp issues would have been smoothed out in previous rounds.
This format allows your cheese heads to bash each other around the tables but because armies are comparable only good generals will emerge for the final tournament round, which will crown a champion. New players who may have been beaten up pretty good early in the day will get a chance to fight more appropriate competition and the memories they take away will be of the more competitive games. Also from an organizer view the 30 minutes or so it takes to redraw brackets gives your players time to meet people, get food, swap stories and advice and in my experience after 2-4 nonstop games everyone needs a break.
This format still allows cheese lists to win the event, but if I'm going to be crowned champion I want to know I have beaten the best and not a modified group that doesn't contain certain elements deamed op. This includes the multiple special character argument as well. If there is a great DA general out there I want to beat his DA. As much as I don't want to fight a Swarmlord and The Doom it is a viable list and if I want to be champ I need to figure out how to beat it. Conversely in the newbie bracket multiple special characters probably won't matter as the players don't have the skill to properly use them. With the middle bracket players see cheese and go "O boy Vulkan again." They know what to expect, they know it happens, they will get over it.
Sportsmanship. Absolute bs unless you were dealing with specifically Games Workshop, national tournaments. The only thing we ever used player scoring for was tie breakers. "O player A and player B tied and had similar comp but people like player B, lets reward him with the higher seed." Ya it my sound unfair but when you have 30 minutes to decide the fate of 100 players you won't care and guess what, no one else will either except the guy who was a thingy to the 16 year old playing BA and got the nutsty sportsman score. As far as handing out a sportsmanship awards we had a saying, "Lucky." Sportsmanship grades nothing except the fact the person didn't beat any jerks who would tank his score out of spite. If you really want an award for best sportsman you need people wandering the gaming tables observing players during games. Then when someone spots a player teaching a youngster about hidden power fists or explaining the fluff behind why my Crimson Fist troopers have Black Templar symbols, his name can be recorded and someone who deserves it can win.
Whatever you chose just make sure it is in black and white for everyone to see. When they sign the bottom line they are agreeing that you are God and your word is law. Decide what you want people to take away from your event and screw anyone who doesn't like it. You can't please everyone, as long as they are aware of the rules before any entrance fees are posted there is nothing that they can say. You all have heard people complain and I'm sure no one has sat up at night worrying if that guy who brought 5 IG special characters to a comp tourney was pissed that he got a crappy score.
Most importantly you have to keep everyone in the loop. If everyone knows what to expect going in, then whatever the rules are it will all run smoothly. Good luck all and if anyone needs an extra body at this thing to help with registration or the like I am available (sold my old armies when GW-Buffalo closed and my Crimson Fists won't be done in time).
1. A tournament by definition is designed to be a competitive affair between players. Any rule limiting army composition does in fact go against this principle, however...
2. Having a comp score to grade army lists will keep games much more competitive. As organizers your job is to make sure people are happy and want to return next year. It was common policy to have all army lists submitted at least a week in advance. At this point the people running the tourney would grade the lists and set up roughly 2/3 of the matches that would take place. We refered to this as 'league play'. It would match armies of similar comp score against each other to determine skill based on ability not 'cheese'.
3. Scores from the first 2/3 would be tallied and brackets would be redrawn based on match performance with tie-breakers going to the list with the better comp score. Terrible players would get to fight terrible player (boosting confidence for next time), average players playing average players (a best of the rest), and finally a tournament bracket comprised of the best players at the tournament. Winners would be drawn from this bracket based solely on table top performance as comp issues would have been smoothed out in previous rounds.
This format allows your cheese heads to bash each other around the tables but because armies are comparable only good generals will emerge for the final tournament round, which will crown a champion. New players who may have been beaten up pretty good early in the day will get a chance to fight more appropriate competition and the memories they take away will be of the more competitive games. Also from an organizer view the 30 minutes or so it takes to redraw brackets gives your players time to meet people, get food, swap stories and advice and in my experience after 2-4 nonstop games everyone needs a break.
This format still allows cheese lists to win the event, but if I'm going to be crowned champion I want to know I have beaten the best and not a modified group that doesn't contain certain elements deamed op. This includes the multiple special character argument as well. If there is a great DA general out there I want to beat his DA. As much as I don't want to fight a Swarmlord and The Doom it is a viable list and if I want to be champ I need to figure out how to beat it. Conversely in the newbie bracket multiple special characters probably won't matter as the players don't have the skill to properly use them. With the middle bracket players see cheese and go "O boy Vulkan again." They know what to expect, they know it happens, they will get over it.
Sportsmanship. Absolute bs unless you were dealing with specifically Games Workshop, national tournaments. The only thing we ever used player scoring for was tie breakers. "O player A and player B tied and had similar comp but people like player B, lets reward him with the higher seed." Ya it my sound unfair but when you have 30 minutes to decide the fate of 100 players you won't care and guess what, no one else will either except the guy who was a thingy to the 16 year old playing BA and got the nutsty sportsman score. As far as handing out a sportsmanship awards we had a saying, "Lucky." Sportsmanship grades nothing except the fact the person didn't beat any jerks who would tank his score out of spite. If you really want an award for best sportsman you need people wandering the gaming tables observing players during games. Then when someone spots a player teaching a youngster about hidden power fists or explaining the fluff behind why my Crimson Fist troopers have Black Templar symbols, his name can be recorded and someone who deserves it can win.
Whatever you chose just make sure it is in black and white for everyone to see. When they sign the bottom line they are agreeing that you are God and your word is law. Decide what you want people to take away from your event and screw anyone who doesn't like it. You can't please everyone, as long as they are aware of the rules before any entrance fees are posted there is nothing that they can say. You all have heard people complain and I'm sure no one has sat up at night worrying if that guy who brought 5 IG special characters to a comp tourney was pissed that he got a crappy score.
Most importantly you have to keep everyone in the loop. If everyone knows what to expect going in, then whatever the rules are it will all run smoothly. Good luck all and if anyone needs an extra body at this thing to help with registration or the like I am available (sold my old armies when GW-Buffalo closed and my Crimson Fists won't be done in time).
