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Post by chumbalaya on Dec 8, 2009 20:02:32 GMT -5
When you're done pontificating, you may want to read actual arguments before continuing. Strawman argument. I can make sweeping blanket statements without attempting to understand somebody's position too, watch.
Comp is for fluffy bunnies who are scared of losing and want to take it out on the mean bullies who beat them.
Obviously nobody is saying or supporting that, so arguing against it does a fat lot of nothing to help my position.
Winning is fine, you always play to win and it's a good goal in game. Why we play is for the competition itself, testing our generalship and our armies against people with solid lists and a strong skill base to go with it. You don't sharpen a blade with cotton, you smash it with a hammer against a rock until it is perfect. That's my mentality, fun through competition. It isn't a thingy measuring contest or about stomping on noobs or anything of the sort, just healthy and fun competition. If I'm playing a newer player, I'll help him understand the game, give him some ideas on where to take his army, and offer all the advice I can. If somebody wants to play Apoc or a fluffy game or whatever, I can do that too. I just prefer bringing my A-game and receiving it in turn.
I'll paint, it's not my favorite thing in the world but I'll do it to make my dollies look prettier. I enjoy converting stuff, but I don't go nuts with GS or sculpting cuz I don't know how. I read fluff, that's why I got into 40k in the first place. Strong competition makes 40k fun, otherwise we're just playing army men ("bang bang you're dead!").
Everything has it's place and everyone is welcome to enjoy their hobby as they wish. Once you put your enjoyment over somebody else's (my way is the only way!), you lose people.
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Post by shilekjalan on Dec 8, 2009 20:43:56 GMT -5
When you're done pontificating, you may want to read actual arguments before continuing. Strawman argument. I can make sweeping blanket statements without attempting to understand somebody's position too, watch. Comp is for fluffy bunnies who are scared of losing and want to take it out on the mean bullies who beat them. Obviously nobody is saying or supporting that, so arguing against it does a fat lot of nothing to help my position. Winning is fine, you always play to win and it's a good goal in game. Why we play is for the competition itself, testing our generalship and our armies against people with solid lists and a strong skill base to go with it. You don't sharpen a blade with cotton, you smash it with a hammer against a rock until it is perfect. That's my mentality, fun through competition. It isn't a thingy measuring contest or about stomping on noobs or anything of the sort, just healthy and fun competition. If I'm playing a newer player, I'll help him understand the game, give him some ideas on where to take his army, and offer all the advice I can. If somebody wants to play Apoc or a fluffy game or whatever, I can do that too. I just prefer bringing my A-game and receiving it in turn. I'll paint, it's not my favorite thing in the world but I'll do it to make my dollies look prettier. I enjoy converting stuff, but I don't go nuts with GS or sculpting cuz I don't know how. I read fluff, that's why I got into 40k in the first place. Strong competition makes 40k fun, otherwise we're just playing army men ("bang bang you're dead!"). Everything has it's place and everyone is welcome to enjoy their hobby as they wish. Once you put your enjoyment over somebody else's (my way is the only way!), you lose people. Greetings, Just to be perfectly clear, I am describing what Warhammer is and what a Warhammer player is. My second post, to the people running the tourney, was just to try to help them understand a little about Warhammer and what a Warhammer tourney should be like. Especially the part about the most important rule, which by the way is not "beat your opponent" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. Actually, I do not play to win. Many people do not. Winning is something that will happen sometimes, and not others. I play because I want to see the awesome tabletop with the great terrain, watch the incredibly awesome painted models bash it out, try out my strategies, have a good time talking about Warhammer stuff, and generally just socialize. Of course I try to win during a battle (usually, not always) but that is not why I play. Now way! Winning is great, but not necessary (for me and for many other Warhammer players). You and me are more or less completly opposite here. That is okay. People should be able to disagree and have a spirited discussion/debate without getting angry, without fighting and without calling names. We are brothers, part of the same wonderful worldwide community. If you and me see things differently and if we cannot convince each other to change and accept the other persons views, then we can live in peace with each other as two very differently opinioned brothers. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Garou24
Chapter Master
Posts: 1,530
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Post by Garou24 on Dec 8, 2009 21:35:59 GMT -5
Some of my most memorable games were ones I lost. A great table, and fun and fully painted army and good opponent win everytime! There is more to just winning a game of warhammer. i work hard on painting my models and collecting and painting terrain and tables. those are also a big part of the hobby. i spend more time painting and modeling than playing. A tournament should include comp for balance and painting for the other arts of the hobby.
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Post by chumbalaya on Dec 8, 2009 22:35:45 GMT -5
Nobody plays to lose, that's just human nature. Just don't be a thingy about it. The goal is to win, but you play to have fun.
The actual means of winning, playing the game, pitting your skill against another (and maybe getting the nod from the dice gods), is what I'm all about. I don't really care if I win or lose, I do want to win and I enjoy when I do, but it's just as much fun seeing somebody else's perfect strategy unfold around you, especially when you figure out how to shut it down the next time. Growth, adaptation, getting better is the ultimate goal, the real win, and everybody can get a piece of that.
Comp scoring, handicapping, or whatever you want to call it, restricts growth and encourages bad habits. You see something new and powerful and it throws you for a loop, you re-examine your army, your tactics, and figure out how to beat it. If you've had your hand held with comp scoring, you just call it funny names, ignore the challenge, and comp-nuke it into oblivion. You can be like Ohio State, only going up against soft opponents to grab easy wins, make yourself look awesome, and then when you go up against a team that has been playing hard against better and better teams every week, even losing to a couple, you fall flat on your face. And it isn't from any lack of skill on your part, it's a product of your environment, batting down lob ups doesn't help you get better, just makes you soft.
I relish the challenge, I love to set myself up against the meanest, hardest armies and players I can find. Sure I may lose, but I won't go crying to mommy to make the bad man go away. I'll get back up, learn from my mistakes, and make a better run of it next time.
So yeah, it's not about winning, it's about making good sport of it. And yes, sportsmanship is key. Don't be an asshat, just play your best.
As for scoring itself, I agree that all aspects of the hobby should be rewarded, including generalship on the tabletop. I could make the argument that we should limit people from painting too well because it discourages newbies from trying since they can't get better or makes others feel inadequate or whatever. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Same deal with comp.
That's my spiel, peace out.
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Post by Norton on Dec 10, 2009 12:42:25 GMT -5
<DRAGON>
Fellow Sisters!
(i've got too many brothers already and we're an awful whiny bunch, don't you think? "ooh you hurt my feelings you did, I'm going to go menstruate, then throw my hairbrush at you, and then blog about it on the facetwitterspace!"
As you can all tell, I play to lose. Unfortunately, I am not terribly good at losing. Hmmm. Maybe i am and you all are just terrible at your goal of whining (wait, scratch that...) i mean winning.
By this point I imagine you are all thinking "you, are an asshole. pure, natural, and bottled at the source."
To which I respond "Thank you, I always try to show some a little leg when I interview, I've found it has really helped me break the glass ceiling and make it in this world."
Perhaps some of you could use this advise?
On a less important note, just read the comp / painting / restrictions that each individual tournament has setup for you and then build your army to best match the restrictions put forward to you. Once you know what you need to win, you can either show up with your money in hand, or you whine keep it kindly to your self and decide not to play in the event that the rest of us are going to go have fun at.
I don't bring bring my baseball bat to the local 5th graders kickball game. (When I did they complained like the little girls they are are and couldn't take the beatings, when using a bat on children I find it much more enjoyable when we both come prepared).
Finally I would like to commend each of you for your cheery disposition and holiday cheer.
Myself, I'm so happy I could shit a kitten. May God tm bless me every day, and the rest of you can sod off.
</DRAGON>
I would like to think the hybrid offspring of Dragon and MajorSOB's Eldar love tryst would be proud of this statement.
Have a sufficient Kwanzaa.
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Post by shilekjalan on Dec 10, 2009 13:13:11 GMT -5
Greetings,
Norton, will you be at the Millenium tournament? If you are going to be there I think you should show up there with no less then two Skaven Plague Furnaces, just because that would be funny. Well, if you do go, then good luck! I will be there, I just will not be playing in the tournament because I did not win my way in to this one.
Courage and Honour,
Ave Imperator
ps....you have a very funny and strange sense of humour
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Post by shilekjalan on Dec 10, 2009 13:13:36 GMT -5
Some of my most memorable games were ones I lost. A great table, and fun and fully painted army and good opponent win everytime! There is more to just winning a game of warhammer. i work hard on painting my models and collecting and painting terrain and tables. those are also a big part of the hobby. i spend more time painting and modeling than playing. A tournament should include comp for balance and painting for the other arts of the hobby. Yes! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Soleman
Chapter Master
The "Strait Talkin"
Posts: 1,389
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Post by Soleman on Dec 10, 2009 13:20:24 GMT -5
<DRAGON> Fellow Sisters! (i've got too many brothers already and we're an awful whiny bunch, don't you think? "ooh you hurt my feelings you did, I'm going to go menstruate, then throw my hairbrush at you, and then blog about it on the facetwitterspace!" As you can all tell, I play to lose. Unfortunately, I am not terribly good at losing. Hmmm. Maybe i am and you all are just terrible at your goal of whining (wait, scratch that...) i mean winning. By this point I imagine you are all thinking "you, are an asshole. pure, natural, and bottled at the source." To which I respond "Thank you, I always try to show some a little leg when I interview, I've found it has really helped me break the glass ceiling and make it in this world." Perhaps some of you could use this advise? On a less important note, just read the comp / painting / restrictions that each individual tournament has setup for you and then build your army to best match the restrictions put forward to you. Once you know what you need to win, you can either show up with your money in hand, or you whine keep it kindly to your self and decide not to play in the event that the rest of us are going to go have fun at. I don't bring bring my baseball bat to the local 5th graders kickball game. (When I did they complained like the little girls they are are and couldn't take the beatings, when using a bat on children I find it much more enjoyable when we both come prepared). Finally I would like to commend each of you for your cheery disposition and holiday cheer. Myself, I'm so happy I could shit a kitten. May God tm bless me every day, and the rest of you can sod off. </DRAGON> I would like to think the hybrid offspring of Dragon and MajorSOB's Eldar love tryst would be proud of this statement. Have a sufficient Kwanzaa. ;D ;D ;D |
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Solstice
Marine
Face stabbin' made easy
Posts: 91
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Post by Solstice on Dec 10, 2009 13:23:36 GMT -5
Solstice reaches for a pokeball, this be warbling chattybi_tch country.
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Post by Norton on Dec 10, 2009 13:40:04 GMT -5
Greetings, Norton, will you be at the Millenium tournament? If you are going to be there I think you should show up there with no less then two Skaven Plague Furnaces, just because that would be funny. Well, if you do go, then good luck! I will be there, I just will not be playing in the tournament because I did not win my way in to this one. Actually, i picked up a plague furnace thingy and it took forever to assemble it (lots of beer sunday night and super glue) and i absolutely dread trying to paint that thing. I think 2 furnaces would be rather nasty and not my particular play style. |
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Post by chumbalaya on Dec 10, 2009 14:38:00 GMT -5
2 Furnaces and 2 Abominations.
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Post by shilekjalan on Dec 10, 2009 22:42:58 GMT -5
Greetings, Norton, will you be at the Millenium tournament? If you are going to be there I think you should show up there with no less then two Skaven Plague Furnaces, just because that would be funny. Well, if you do go, then good luck! I will be there, I just will not be playing in the tournament because I did not win my way in to this one. Actually, i picked up a plague furnace thingy and it took forever to assemble it (lots of beer sunday night and super glue) and i absolutely dread trying to paint that thing. I think 2 furnaces would be rather nasty and not my particular play style. Greetings, Well you never know, there is a girl that plays at millenium mayby a girl will start playing at boldos too. yea, that was a joke, you do not seem like the sort of guy to play that way. me neither really, not the way i like it. winning that last tournament was fun though! if i play at millenium, i would not mind winning.... of course that would probably require loading up on the cheddar because i am not a good player really and that is how things are there. even though it would make the victories more fun without the cheddar. hmmm speaking of which muenster cheese is very good, you should try some Courage and Honour, Ave Imperator |
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