40K Scoring Sheet

[MajorSoB]

OK let the complaining begin, here is my first draft...

[ftp]http://www.frontiernet.net/~dpl909/40K-ScoringSheet.pdf[/ftp]

[skyth]

I have to wonder how many people will score something that should be a 2 on fairness would score it a 0.

What is the difference between a 0, 1, 2, and 3? I'm honestly still trying to understand this.

I do like the differentiation between completely unpainted and not completley painted.

I would make two suggestions-

One is to have an opponent's choice award at the end of the tournament for each category.

Second is to allow time before each battle for each opponent to explain thier army fluff, etc and have the painting, fairness, and fluff turned in then, before the actual battle.

[MajorSoB]

Well if I would have placed money on it, I would have won that bet! ;D
How did I know you would have issues? Hmmm, must be psychic I guess...

Most of the more experienced player here will recognize this format is based on the Canadian GT/ Hall of Heroes scoresheet. In the Canadian GT's each player is supposed to have a write up explaining his army as well as materials that would help with that armies fluff. Unless you are a complete noob, you know what a Space Woves army is, a Blood Angels army, Biel-Tan, Altioch, Black Templars, etc. You SHOULD know what makes each particular army unique and if you are unsure you should ASK your opponent, most players are very happy to explain their armies to anyone who shows the slightest bit of interest.

As for fairness, again I am relying on the players to use some mental capacity. Let's see, a 0 would be every squad min/maxed, two minimum troop squads, all heavy weapon choices used, cheesy gimick powers like Siren, etc. A 1 might be similar but actually have a chink in the armor like only one HQ or one small unit that is bad usually used as bait, but still all uber weaponry, repetion "because it was the best choice, etc. A 2 approaches fairness, but still min/maxed squads with less repetion. In your mind you mind think "This would be fair is he changed this.." Please give me better suggestions to define the steps, I am more than happy to amend this sheet to a better suggestion.

As for Best Comp, Best Painted, and Best Opponent, these are usuallly awards that we do include and vote seperately on after the last game is played. Bonus points are usually added tro the players score for receiving votes in any of these categories.

As for turning in score before and after the game, I understand your concern but do not agree. Throughout the game you get a more complete picture of your opponents army, therefore evaluating it after the game makes more sence to me when you have the most amount of information available.

[Iron Warrior]

It sounds to me like some people want to just eliminate comp/painting/sports all together. Eliminating those just brings up another problem entirely...WAAC armies galore. Nothing to keep in check the power armies. You WILL see people quit playing if that happens.
Im sure GW doesnt want that to happen. Thus the comp systems used in the GT and Im sure they are well aware at some of the problems they have created in thier codex's with over powering.

Thus the reason for the rubric, comp sheet etc..whatever...

3 ways of doing it.

Completely let the judges do it.
cons- judges arent always competnent in rule/painting/fluff
- people think judges play favorites to locals

pro -Players cannot hose your scores at all

Let the players do it!
cons- players can hose your score based on if they win/lose
- some players are way to lienet or harsh when scoring

pros- players are allowed to judge the army they played as to discourage power gaming
-discourages players from being complete jerks with rules

Combination of both -cons are the same but some things are left to players
-pros are the same but some things are left to judges

People are just going to have to be subjective when judging. There is no perfect way. Read your codex, read others while your in the can. learn a little of each army and what makes them a Blood angel vs a Blood Raven (besides a video game) Learn the fluff. Dont be a prick if you lose (or win) And you have been cheated before in the past, remain jaded if you want but dont expect things to change. Some people you can please others you cant.

PS, I like that way of doing it SoB. How ever again its very subjective..Which I have no problem with.

[Ranger Dude]

I wouldn't object to a sheet like this. I know I've been a big pusher of full rubrics, but I've been thinking about it and another way to accomplish the goals I've been trying for would be to put out some examples beforehand. Basically, we could put out examples covering top and bottom of each category.

As for this sheet, wording may need some tweeking, but it looks good overall. I would suggest doing both players and judges for some parts. Obviously judges couldn't score fun factor, but they could score the others which might help to balance out the player hose factor. This is even more true if you have multiple judges.

[Goldeagle]

I think Ranger Dude has it right. We should try this at a local tourn sometime down the road to see how it works.

[skyth]

majorsob said:

Well if I would have placed money on it, I would have won that bet! ;D
How did I know you would have issues? Hmmm, must be psychic I guess...

Well, I actually didn't have issues with it per se. Had some suggestions to make it better. It is the best subjective score sheet I've seen, assuming people actually read it and follow the directions.

Thanks for the examples of types of armies to get different ratings...If you don't mind, to help me further, can you tell me what you'd rate the armies I posted in the other thread for each one?

[MajorSoB]

No problem Skyth, link me back to them and I will be happy to help you rate those armies.

I like all the suggestions, please keep them coming.

As for coupling this with a judges score sheet, I like the idea. I will work on a judges form as well, so overall we would have scoring from rounds played, plus the judges score, as well as bonus points for players choices in painting, comp, and sportman to determine overall winners. I willl try to have this ready to use at Simcon this year.

Please give me specific suggestions on wording changes you might like to see. Thanks again.

[skyth]

www.daboyzateam.proboards77.com/index.cgi?board=tournamentnewsandannounceme&action=display&thread=1168914503

[jay]

Doug, are you sure you want to do this.

some of armies look rough.

some of armies look worst then what kemp brought to the Chicago GT.

[MajorSoB]

Without actually seeing your armies Skyth, it is difficult to access proper score, but here is my attempt.

Alpha Legion
Fluff- Your purposeful omission of deamons I believe in consistent to your fluff so I think you would score between a 3 and 4. I would ask you about your fluff if I played since I am not 100% informed on Alpha Legions specifics.
Fairness- There is duplication as well as the best weapon upgrades. It lacks diversity so I would expect a 2-3 for a score possibly lower. Vary squad size as well as weapon upgrades and choices to get a higher score or play what you want. This is meant to be a handicapping category to help give weaker armies a needed break. Your army should make up for it in the battle category, but that is your choice.

Tyranids
Fluff- Again 3-4, but a good write up an explaination would help clarify it.
Fairness - Here I would say a solid 3. You have taken large squads of troops each with different upgrades. The thing I dislike is that you have taken so many big bugs and zoyes equipped identically, but I do understand your theme being big bugs as well. The reason I would score you somewhat higher is due to your troop inclusion. I have seen the big bug force and this is somewhat muted compared to other lists. Duplication however will keep your score lower, possible 1 to 3 from players who particularly dislike the same old same old. Again you should make up lost points here in battle.

Daemonhunters
Fluff- Not bad for a radical list with a space marine detatchment. I would say a 3 or 4 should be expected. Explanation and a good write up helps to push this higher.
Fairness- This is by far the most fair army you have, it has unique units which most players like seeing, like the death cultists and the deamonhost. I would rate you a 4 for playing an army that can be good but requires more tactics to work. Again, 3 to 4 should be expected but varying the weapon upgrades and eliminating repetion would help guarantee a high score, however others will downgrade you for including marines and not taking a pure force.

Marines
Fluff- Who knows, is this a DIYC? Traits? Who are they and what do they do, I need more info.
Fairness- Typical marine force, probably a 3, possibly lower due to repetition and taking the standard upgrades. Boring, no variety, built to win, so I can see where a 1 or 2 might be justified.

As stated a 3 is the average that I was looking for, so if you receive all 3, you are typical. Extreme scores should represent extremes. Show me something to get a 4 or a 5.

Another thing to consider is how much fun your armies are. Deamonhost are fun and random and usually produce a memorable game, but marines and tons of big bugs can be both frustrating an boring, and you will see your scores reflected in Fun Factor appropriately.

[jay]

yea that is Tyranids army not a "big Ones"

where are the warriors, lictors, tryant guard, ravengers. they are big ones.

what he took for troops are not big ones

Stealers

20 Termagaunts

20 Spinegaunts

22 Spinegaunts

this is a nid army with call its self Godzilla because it is taking alot of carnifexs.

this army is typical big one army that everyone is playing and it giving the list a bad rep.

[MajorSoB]

Version 2 online...

[ftp]http://www.frontiernet.net/~dpl909/40K-ScoringSheet-ver2.pdf[/ftp]

[Goldeagle]

Well done Doug! Huzzahh!!! May I recommend on Fun-Factor that you change #3 to include only minor rules discussions, and #4 to say a great game, no rules arguments, and a nail-biter "could have gone either way". A good opponent gets a 3, a great opponent will get 4's, while 5's are for that rare game with a fantastic opponent that comes down to the very last roll of the dice...

Recommendation on fluff; in #4 say this army has gone out of its way to be in theme with the respective army list and #5 to say this army has walked right out of the pages of the 40k fluff. Again, 3's and 4's will be most common with a 4 being given to well themed armies. The number of 5's given out will be rare.

[doc]

Nice score sheets Doug - kinda remind me of something I have seen recently
One typo on the Fluff section.