DaBoyz Fantasy GT

[jay]

I am thinking about changing the points for the fantasy at the DaBoyz GT. How does 2250 sound?

Other thoughts:

Missions will be taken from the book.

The overall winner scores will include painting, sportsmanship, and possible composition (is comp needed in 8th edition).


Awards and Prizes
Overall Winner:
2nd overall
3rd overall
Best Opponent:
Best General:
Best Appearance:
Best Sportsman:
Player Choice:
Last Place:

Any other thoughts comments or suggestions on the Warhammer Fantasy GT

[skyth]

Jul 13, 2010 11:13:05 GMT -5 jay said:

I am thinking about changing the points for the fantasy at the DaBoyz GT. How does 2250 sound?

Sounds good.

(is comp needed in 8th edition).

Yes. I can tell the game is just as unbalanced now as it was before. How it is now unbalanced has changed...And will take some time to figure out. Big units of Great Weapon armed guys are nasty from a math-hammer point of view.

I'd state my preference of having 'Hard' comp, where you state what can be taken with posted limits...But don't have an actual score.

[chumbalaya]

I disagree re: comp (shocking, I know).

8th ed is a new game and gave pretty much everyone and every army a kick in the pants. Rather than shackle us with comp from the get-go based on old habits/hangups from previous editions, I say we dive right into 8th, get a really good feel for it and then determine whether comp is necessary (pro tip: it's not).

Hard restrictions are already in place in the new army building system.

[skyth]

I admitted that the rules got turned on thier heads and it will take time to figure out what the powerful builds are.

I was talking very general limitations (No Double rares/Tripple Specials (double rares allowed for High Elves), limit to added power dice/Dispel dice, limit to War Machines and Long range shooting, max of (example) 250 points in any unit)

[chumbalaya]

Special/Rare limitations are already in place. Do double Rare/triple Special is in the rules now Points restrictions are there too.

PD restrictions are also in place. Max of 12 and random rolling. Plus, the more PD you use, the better your chances of rolling on the devastating miscast table. Armies that spend points on getting more dice have to contend with the random Winds of Magic, enemy dispelling, and the fact that they've put more points into that and less into smashy units, shooty units or utility units.

Taking bigger, more expensive units has its own downsides as well. Big units are harder to move, susceptible to being ganged up on and blocked off, and are very vulnerable to templates. Expensive monsters and Lords have the same drawbacks as always.

8th ed is a whole different beast from 7th.

[skyth]

Jul 13, 2010 16:03:24 GMT -5 chumbalaya said:

Special/Rare limitations are already in place. Do double Rare/triple Special is in the rules now Points restrictions are there too.

Rules allow double rare and tripple special. I say par it down a bit. Point restriction for individual units isn't.

PD restrictions are also in place. Max of 12 and random rolling.

Bonus dice (Especially to dispel) have a lot more impact in the game now.

Plus, the more PD you use, the better your chances of rolling on the devastating miscast table.

Miscast table is only devestating to the unit around the mage. If the mage doesn't need a unit around them, then it's not an issue. Especially if the mage has a ward save or/(especially) and access to the Lore of Life.

Taking bigger, more expensive units has its own downsides as well. Big units are harder to move, susceptible to being ganged up on and blocked off

Gang up on a good deathstar this edition and you just lost both units you ganged up on it with. Especially since you're likely dealing with more points being thrown at the deathstar than it's worth. Blocking a unit off doesn't work with the new redirecting rules plus quick reforms.

and are very vulnerable to templates.

Not when the templates don't ignore armor saves any more and are weaker generally. Not to mention when things can get to them faster.

Expensive monsters and Lords have the same drawbacks as always.

Monsters and characters generally got a nerf. Thus they weren't really included in the list I mentioned.

8th ed is a whole different beast from 7th.

That part is right. The edition got turned on it's head. Before the Cav/skirmish armies were the most powerful. Now it's the good big infantry blocks where the power really lies.

The game is as unbalanced as it was before. The difference is what was powerful is now too weak. It will be a bit of time before a good feel for the comp happens, thus I was suggesting a very generic one.

[chumbalaya]

Any points put into Rare and Special are points not put into Core and characters. Opportunity costs can be just as painful, if not moreso than actual points.

Bonus dice to dispel are handy, but they don't mean squat if you're getting shot/chopped up to itty bits. Don't bring a one dimensional army and you'll be fine, same as before.

A big unit of crap troops, like Goblins or Clanrats is very vulnerable to template weaponry or just getting ground down by tougher and killier units, like Chaos Knights. A big unit of elite troops, like Chaos Warriors or Temple Guard is going to cost a lot of points and will be like any other deathstar, a big hit or miss that your entire army hinges on.

And we can do this back and forth all day since we don't know 8th well enough yet. Which is why I would encourage people to actually try the system out as-is before modifying it. Why fix what isn't broken?

[honsou]

the tournament scene will still focus on the same powerful armies, except 8th really hit demons hard, so with the adjustment to units and always strike first put high elves on the higher tier (swordmasters are again gross, just a lil better now)...dark elves are still up there too: both armies get rediculous dragon lords: dark elves w the unkillable dread w reverse ward save on black dragon+ring of hotek somewhere, high elves still with the rediculous star dragon+prince, and both w stupid get battle rez standards...yea played a few games, but 8th ed is more balanced than 7th, but its still very unbalanced: use timmy comp from the british indy gt scene, its meant for fantasy, adjusted for 8th id assume, and evens the playing field

[boldo]

Just start making lists and the huge abusiveness of the system becomes obvious. If you push this new army constructuon rules even a little they become broken. For example Orcs can get at least12 chariots in the army without pump wagons and still have 3 rock lobbars, 6 spear chukkas, and 2 doom divers. Did I spend 1000 pts yet? The High elf 50% swordmaster army with RBTS is a bit stupid good too. Now I am not for restrictions on construction but scoring for comp as it is obvious that having 50% core is worse than 50% swordmasters and I always believe a system can be made that scores this roughly.

Boldo

[skyth]

Pure scores tacked on at the end don't actually balance the tournament.

It doesn't take into account strength of opposition. Someone who has a 10 comp that goes 3-0 against 5 comp lists should not lose the tournament to someone with 15 comp that went 3-0 against 20 comp lists.

That, combined with stealth cheese, means I vastly perfer hard comp (restrictions) to any kind of scored comp.

[jay]

The info packet is updated, so buy your fantasy tickets and buy them often.

[boldo]

How do I buy a ticket. I would love to attend this fine event with or without comp?

[jay]

Aug 31, 2010 10:49:13 GMT -5 boldo said:

How do I buy a ticket. I would love to attend this fine event with or without comp?

You can do it here with Paypay. daboyzgt.wordpress.com/da-boyz-gt/

Or just give me, Ron, or Rob the money. I try to make it down on Tuesday to collect money and to push the event.

[forsakenimp]

Question One- Is there a thread/forum we should post in for Rules Questions regarding the GT on the Fantasy side, or keep it strictly in e-mails? There's some... unclear rules for Bretonnia that might alter my list.

Skyth's post on basically using comp as a weight for scores is interesting, but is something I would really rather see intensely thought out than implemented asap. Perhaps look and see what such a system would do to this year's result without actually using them officially, just to see if it's worth it?

I like that there is comp, it's made a lot of my friends with non-top tier armies want to show up. Implementation is always the hard part, and we thank you guys for sticking with it and doing the work!

[jay]

send in the question as a email, but you can also post the question here so it can start a discussion.