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Post by colonelellios on May 3, 2007 9:55:51 GMT -5
Outnumbered, not necessarily.
Outgunned, assuredly.
I think it's a pretty low-powered list.
It doesn't have variety, however. Not much, anyways. I thought the idea was to promote variety. I see no reason why this list should score at or near full comp...
Would definitely get full sportsmanship. It qualifies as a "fun" army.
And once again, we demonstrate the important difference between "comp" and "fun" and how hard they are to balance...
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on May 3, 2007 13:38:26 GMT -5
yeah... I'm gonna have to call BS on the 74 model marine army always being outnumbered...
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Post by colonelellios on May 3, 2007 13:42:14 GMT -5
I'd like to add that Ranger Dude's "gimmick" army doesn't exploit the "gimmick" of infiltrate to the extent that others can and do.
There are still three AV12 vehicles to shoot at, and a bunch of assault marines to consider (that don't infiltrate).
Actually, I would complain about the two venerables (one is reasonable). The TLLC/ML Tank Hunter venerable dread is extremely point-efficient, and I don't think you can justify running another ven dread next to this powerful model. (now if they both had DCCWs...that would certainly up the cool-factor and be not earn a ding in my book)
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on May 3, 2007 15:06:57 GMT -5
I'd like to add that Ranger Dude's "gimmick" army doesn't exploit the "gimmick" of infiltrate to the extent that others can and do. There are still three AV12 vehicles to shoot at, and a bunch of assault marines to consider (that don't infiltrate). Actually, I would complain about the two venerables (one is reasonable). The TLLC/ML Tank Hunter venerable dread is extremely point-efficient, and I don't think you can justify running another ven dread next to this powerful model. (now if they both had DCCWs...that would certainly up the cool-factor and be not earn a ding in my book) I don't see what there is to complain about... each of the special abilities granted by the traits taken is used exactly once. And since this is not a blood angels army... an imperial DCCW dreadnought is not an option you f**king retard. Maybe you should actually read some of the books in question before posting retarded comments. p.s. this post was meant to offend only colonelellios
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on May 3, 2007 15:12:07 GMT -5
I think what we have Here is a I.D.10 T Error.
READ YOUR CODEX.
I see you have not changed one bit since you left us Colonel Pizza.
Like your Disclamer Wolflord.
Im wondering, did your other conversations on other boards die out so now you are bothering use with you non sensesical vomit?
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Post by colonelellios on May 3, 2007 16:18:25 GMT -5
What is both of your problems? Apparently you've increased the a$$hat factor since I left...
Wolf Lord, in your eagerness to offend me, you might not have noticed that the acronym DCCWs means "Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapons." Since I was referring to TWO dreadnaughts, wouldn't that mean that each dreadnaught should have one DCCW?
Thanks for instigating stupidity Ron...again...
And to answer your question, I haven't gotten to play in a long while due to school, so I've been paying more attention to message boards (of all types). Even if I don't post, I occasionally check back here to see what's going on. If my *sudden* involvment on *your* message board (apparently) offends you, tough luck. I have every right to be here as you. I would think you'd welcome input into your setting up a regional tournament...
I appreciate the welcome back though, guys. Good to know I seem to have seriously offended everyone in my absence...
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on May 3, 2007 16:42:26 GMT -5
ohh... dreadnought close combat weapons... I had thought you meand dual close combat weapons... yeah... let's make all 3 dreadnoughts armed almost exactly the same... brilliant..
imho 170 points for a las-missile dreadnought is not so point efficeient...
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Post by colonelellios on May 3, 2007 16:46:59 GMT -5
So you were so quick to insult me because...of your own ignorance? And then choose not to apologize? I think I just lost some respect for you Orville...
You could make the heavy support dread the TLLC/ML dreadnaught.
Leave the venerables as weapon/DCCW. I think this is both fluffy (going with the leaders=great at assault) and more fair to your opponent. And where is the fun factor in having a beefy, ancient, wise and battle-hardened space marine hero in the back of the battlefield sniping away, while his battle brothers do the dying at the front?? Those venerables have no excuse! Use that damage die re-roll and get them into close combat where dreadnaughts belong! Hi-ho, silver! Charge! ;D
If you've ever brought an expensive vehicle to a game and had to worry about an opposing Ven Dread w/ TLLC/ML and tank hunter, you'd know precisely how efficient that particular choice is... (gee...and look...you can't do that with the new DA codex...wonder why...)
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on May 4, 2007 0:25:14 GMT -5
Uhh... maybe that old and wise space marine hero came from a devastator squad.. did you ever think of that?... I'm really good with a las cannon... but I think I'll grab me a power fist and charge because I'm old and wise!!! yippie kay yay!
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on May 4, 2007 6:58:41 GMT -5
Oh noes! Watch out orville. He has lost respect for you. Maybe if he wasnt so condensending coming in here insulting people off the bat people wouldint insult his intellegence.
Ellios. Have you Ever played a marine army? Besides your grey knight which a vastly diffrent from normal space marines?
Do you own a Space Marine Codex?
This is an opinion. Theres certain chapters that have an afinity for Dreadnoughts and those that dont. Some use them and some dont. Fluff depends on the chapter, Fair...well..if ANYONE takes a Dreadnought (or 3!) You should be thanking him...he gave you points. They are not points effective. You want a weapons platform take a predator, better armor, more guns, more reliable. People who take dreadys are doing it to show fluff.
Hahaahaha Beefy? yeah right. Again fluff dictactes whether this is true or not. Ultramarines Dreadnought are coveteted and valueable for thier wisdom and guidence amongst thier chapter. Why would they send thier greatest minds into a Close combat when they know they would be destroyed otherwise?
Your making assumptions based on your own opinion of what you think is fair to you. No one is going to cater to what you may think is fair unless you support your view with facts. Dreadnoughts by far are not cheesy. I dont even know why this topic was started. lets get back to the original topic Daboyz tourney comp take 2
3 of the same dreadnought armed the same way. Minor Ding for comp, based on Chapter Fluff. (Iron Hands for example would have 3 Venerables and may not get dinged) 3 Armed diffrently No ding. (Honestly you should be thanking your opponent, there are way better elite options available)
You are one to talk Craig. So far I dont think anything you have said has been supported by fact or fiction. Just opnions. Lets stop the crying because were not going to throw you a pity party because you cant take a little heat. What did you expect with the condensending attitude? Anyways..getting off topic and I have spent entirely WAY too much time talking to Ellios.
EDIT: Sorry tom. I took out the swear word.
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Post by Catachan Colonel on May 4, 2007 7:59:12 GMT -5
Come on guys we can disagree without being insulting to each other. We have a thread some place called "shut up brian" for being vile. We have legitamate diffrences of opinion and i think most of this thread has been a constructive exchange. (even if it changes no ones mind) So back to the issue and no sniping. Attack the position not the person please.
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Post by jay on May 4, 2007 10:15:10 GMT -5
Well said Tommy
thank you for posting it.
the post have been very negative lately.
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Post by colonelellios on May 4, 2007 11:24:43 GMT -5
Oh noes! Watch out orville. He has lost respect for you. Maybe if he wasnt so condensending coming in here insulting people off the bat people wouldint insult his intellegence. Ellios. Have you Ever played a marine army? Besides your grey knight which a vastly diffrent from normal space marines? Do you own a Space Marine Codex? Yes...because none of that was predictable. I suppose it wouldn't change your attitude if I said I've seen better objections to an opinion at Warseer... And are you doing anything different? How about this for facts--I've had a Venerable Dreadnaught with TLLC/ML and Tank Hunters destroy more Falcons, Land Raiders, Rhinos, Waveserpents; than ANY other tank hunting unit other than Devestators with 4 LC and Tank Hunters. And you want to know why it's cheap? For the same reason a Holofield is cheap. Since you have 48" guns, just sit your dreaddy in terrain w/ hull down, and snipe away. If he gets hit, chances are he doesn't die (due to re-roll) but is shaken and retreats out the back of whatever terrain he was hiding in, then advances again next turn to vape something else. I have to ask, have YOU played against an opponent with a THunting venerable such as this? And had vehicles to worry about? If so, you must be a lot more lucky than me to state that the ven dread is "overcosted." Who is being condescending/insulting here? You know what Ron, you're right. Your opinion is obviously more valid than mine. You win, I concede the point.
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Post by colonelellios on May 4, 2007 11:57:59 GMT -5
Uhh... maybe that old and wise space marine hero came from a devastator squad.. did you ever think of that?... I'm really good with a las cannon... but I think I'll grab me a power fist and charge because I'm old and wise!!! yippie kay yay! Do you think GW modeled the new Venerable Dreadnaught with that cool looking clampy-fist so that people would pop the missile launcher on instead? This is entirely a matter of opinion, but I vehemently believe that a Venerable Dreadnaught, by the fluff GW publishes, should not be sitting at the back of the battle sniping away. I've never seen this described in any detail in the fluff, simply because it wouldn't make good fluff--it's B-O-R-I-N-G.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on May 4, 2007 12:13:10 GMT -5
Do you think GW modeled the new Venerable Dreadnaught with that cool looking clampy-fist so that people would pop the missile launcher on instead? Ummm, no, GW modeled that cool new clampy powerfist so that retards would go out and spend money on one of their newest ( and in my opinion ugliest) new models. Before you start ripping on dreadies or ven dreadies, you should play them. Dreadies are a huge point sink that never get back their cost. They are fun to play but by no means good. I would trade them anyday for a looted falcon or two. Hey there is an idea!! Maybe in the new space marine codex we can have looted vehicles... here's my list, obligitory HQ, tac squad in a battlewagon, two falcons, a monolith...yeah that works!!!
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