Space Marine 2000 point army revised

[crimsonstorm]

With quite a bit of advice and tweaking, here's what I've got. I plan on maybe switching the flamer on the tactical squad into a meltagun as well. I've also gotten the advice that I should drop the second Scout Squad, because it isn't necessary. Here's my biggest question though, Should I drop the captain for Vulkan or Lysander? An argument can be made either way. Both have a 3+ Invulnerable save, so both can stand with the terminators. Vulkan has a heavy flamer, master crafted relic blade, and makes all of the thunder hammers in the terminator squad master crafted as well. Lysander can fortify one ruin, so if the scouts are in there they can get a 2+ cover save, he has a master-crafted Thunder Hammer, and he makes the entire army stubborn. His bolter drill rule would be wasted though, as none of the assault terminators have bolters of any sort. Or I could drop the Librarian and take both a captain and either Vulkan or Lysander. Thoughts?


HQ

Captain: 170 points
-Thunder Hammer
-Storm Shield
-Terminator Armour


Librarian: 140 points
-Force Weapon
-Storm Shield
-Avenger, Null Zone


Troops:

Tactical Squad: 220 points
-7 w/Boltgun
-1 w/Missile Launcher
-1 w/Meltagun
-Sergeant has Combi-Melta
-Rhino


Tactical Squad: 205 points
-7 w/Boltgun
-1 w/Missile Launcher
-1 w/Flamer
-Sergeant has Boltgun
-Rhino


Scout Squad: 100 points
-3 w/Snipers
-1 w/Missile Launcher
-Sergeant has Sniper
-All units have Camo Cloaks



Scout Squad: 100 points
-3 w/Snipers
-1 w/Heavy Bolter
-Sergeant has Sniper
-All units have Camo Cloaks


Elites

Dreadnought: 125 points
-2 Twin-Linked Autocannons

Dreadnought: 125 points
-2 Twin-Linked Autocannons

Terminator Assault Squad: 460 points
-4 w/Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
-Sergeant has Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
-Land Raider Crusader


Heavy


Predator: 120 points
-Twin-Linked Autocannon
-Lascannon Sponsons


Predator: 120 points
-Twin-Linked Autocannon
-Lascannon Sponsons

Vindicator: 125 points
-Demolisher Cannon
-Siege Shield

[primarchpatrick]

i like lysander...

[crimsonstorm]

Please use reasoning to back up your votes/arguments. I like Vulkan, and I like Chapter Masters, but I'm looking for an effective army.

[primarchpatrick]

oh, sorry. I think you should take him because he is wearing terminator armor, he has a 3+ invul save, 4 wounds with eternal warrior, bolster defences and he looks like a giant tyranid eater. hope this helps ;D

[crimsonstorm]

Vulkan also has a 3+ invul save, a Master-crafted Relic Blade, a Heavy Flamer, and he makes the Thunder Hammers of his squad Master-Crafted. He also makes and flamers and meltas in the army count as twin-linked.

[Timbo]

I would go with Vulkan. Making flamers and meltas twin-linked is almost worth it of itself. He'll also boost your termies, and give them some horde-thinning capability in case they get overwhelmed.

[hyv3mynd]

Here's my take.

Vulkan is one of the best force multipliers in the game along with Eldrad and Ghazkull. A lot of local players frown upon using characters like them, but if you want an effective codex marine list, Vulkan wins hands down.

However, taking him for a list with 5 hammers and 1 melta gun is a waste. If you do, I'd at least revert the dreads to multi-melta, maybe put them in drop pods, and swap some of the heavies for multi-melta/heavy flamer speeders. That will make Vulkans chapter tactics more useful.

All the special character shenanigans aside, the list is relying on 1 unit in close combat. Its a good one, but most experienced players have ways of dealing with hammernators. The tac squads don't have power weapons or fists and the dreads are str6 without power weapons. Don't get me wrong, rifleman dreads are good at shooting up rhinos and razorbacks.

The list is decent, but probably requires more practice and skill than a Vulkan list. If you end up playing someone with enough mobility, outflank, or deepstrike to get into your firebase, one squad of terminators won't be enough to save the day.

[fishboy]

and he makes the Thunder Hammers of his squad Master-Crafted

He makes ALL TH in the ARMY master crafted, not just his squad. This list is not really tailored to use Vulkin and his additions so I would go with the simple Chapter master and goose him up. I would also change one of the dreads to a iron clad.

[Soleman]

I'm not going to duplicate the post I made on the other board, crimson, but I will repeat that personally, I wouldn't take either named character unless I was going to build an army themed on their chapter.

And I have to agree with hyv3mynd, you do have too many of your eggs in one basket. Change it up, diversify and you'll have a much more effective list with or without the special character.

Good luck!

[chumbalaya]

I'd go with neither. You don't benefit much from Vulkan and Lysander, while a beat stick, saddles you with stubborn and you have only 1 unit that benefits from it.

I'd drop the punchy HQ altogether and try to fit in another Land Raider full of Termies.

[crimsonstorm]

Hmmm, what would you recommend for a list? I definitely want AC dreads, perhaps a master of the forge to let me take them as heavy?

[chumbalaya]

You could take 10 Terminators and a Land Raider as Heavy. That way you still have 2 Elite slots free for Dreads since you can simply combat squad.

[primarchpatrick]

i think vulkan would be better after i saw him in action yesterday