MajorSoB
Moderator
The oldest
THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
Posts: 2,135
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Post by MajorSoB on Nov 23, 2010 5:03:17 GMT -5
I played this guy ( Matt McClanahan ) and I can understand his frustration. His army was weak but very thematic. He played 5 man scout squads, SHOOTY terminators ( didnt even think they were still legal in 5th edition...LOL) and a special character, Lysander. He scored a 49 in comp. He scored 32 in painting. Here is an example of his army.
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Post by galorn on Nov 23, 2010 11:08:49 GMT -5
And feelings like this is why if there is comp it must be a published rubric ahead of time... link to the thread where I had my own comp "issues." daboyzateam.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smack&action=display&thread=2834at this point my attending Da boyz 2011 will depend on several things (including employment status) but especially on how comp is implemented for 2011.
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Post by professor on Nov 23, 2010 11:41:13 GMT -5
I will tell you right now having assessed qualitative elements for years in exams, using a strict rubric is a terrible way to perform this assessment.
There should be guidelines and a point breakdown in GENERAL, but there needs to be enough flexibility for judgement calls.
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Post by grimwulfe on Nov 23, 2010 11:52:28 GMT -5
Ok so first off this guy brought a sucky spam list and expected it to be compy with a special character no less? 5 of the same troop and 2 of the same elites doesnt sound compy to me just sounds like hes going for whats sucky.
As for his painting that model is sloppy as hell. He would of been better off not going for the highlights and just tried to be clean with his lines.
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Nov 23, 2010 12:26:14 GMT -5
I really dont want to get involed in another discussion about comp, I have been in so many that even the thought of posting this is making me sick becuase I know exactly what is coming afterwards. But in efforts to shed some light on the subject her are some thoughts that went through my mind when I look at his list.
hq] Lysander 200 elites] 10 terminators, 2 w/ hvy flamer 410 elites] 10 terminators, 2 w/ cyclone missle launchers 460 troops] 5 scouts w/camo cloaks, w/ sargetelion, w/ missle launcher 150 troops] 5 scouts w/camo cloaks, w/missle launcher 100 troops] 5 scouts w/Power Fist, w/ teleport homer 115 troops] 5 scouts w/Power Weapon, w/ teleport homer 105 troops] 5 scouts w/Power Fist, w/ teleport homer 115 fast attack] Land Speeder Storm w/ multi melta 65 fast attack] Land Speeder Storm w/ multi melta 65 fast attack] Land Speeder Storm w/ multi melta 65
Instantly I see spam and 2 special characters. What you dont see in that blurry pic is the min sized scout spam, barely see the 3 identical seperate speeders.
I enjoy the fluff of this game so lets jump to that for a second. Lysander Captain of the 1st Company. 1st Company = Terminators. The list includes them, awesome! but now we have the rest of the army which is elements of the Scout company, I believe its the 10th company? Whats up with that? Telion is an untramarine, whats he doing in an imperial fist army?
The list choose 2 special characters, and took 3 choices from the entire Space marine codex. Terms, scouts and speeders and spammed them. And claimed it was a true Imp Fist army? im sorry but I dont see it.
Is it strong? no. Does it deserve a high comp? Not in my opinion. Does it spam the hell out of 3 units, Yes. Did it take 2 SC, yes. Did we not say since the begining that we will be looking down on SC?, yes.
Personally I can say in my book it scored low in comp becuase of the amount of spam I saw. Keep in mind im only one individual that looked at this list.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 23, 2010 12:46:45 GMT -5
I agree with ron. In addittion, the list excpectations were up for months and lists were open to two pre-judgings.
He should be pleased actually I scored 31 without any triplicate or special characters.
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Post by grubnards on Nov 23, 2010 12:55:08 GMT -5
Didn't everyone have a 2 month period in which they could have sent their list to be reviewed for a rough comp score and comments/suggestions? My question is did Matt or any of the other comp complainers take Da Boyz up on that offer?
I know that many did send them in and then either revised their lists to improve their comp scores or said "the heck with it" and went for a stronger list knowing that they would take a hit on comp but at least they went on Saturday knowing where they stood.
Not knowing Matt or not having to play against him then I would have to agree with Ron's assessment of the list.
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jdubb
Sergeant
oh yeah
Posts: 490
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Post by jdubb on Nov 23, 2010 13:03:42 GMT -5
I agree with Ron as well. We do have to keep in mind that Comp and Theme were separate in GT scoring this year. Not that it changes anything in this discussion, but it is important to keep in mind.
The comp no-nos in this list were min-sized squads, excessive repetition in unit choices, and 2 special characters. Taking all sucky units =/= good comp.
I personally hope that comp continues to exist for next year. I agree though that the scoring should be more open and predictable.
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Post by skyth on Nov 23, 2010 13:45:43 GMT -5
I will have to agree that, knowing the environment, I am not surprised that he got a low comp score looking at the army.
Most checklist systems would actually give that army a low rating also.
He obviously went in with the (understandable) expectation that a weak army will net a good comp score. Especially since Best General is determined by comp plus battle. If I look at a tournament scoring system and see that best general is determined that way I would have the expectation that it was based solely on power level of the army.
I don't know if he sent in his army to be pre-evaluated, but since that did not produce reliable results, not much can be said about that. Perhaps if you give someone a pre-evaluation score, have the final score be +/- 5 points.
This just basically shows the biggest problem with comp...Someone has made the comment that 'everyone' knows what a good comp list and a bad comp list looks like. This kind of proves the opposite. Comp scores for this list would be all over the place depending on who was judging it.
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Timbo
Sergeant
Posts: 175
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Post by Timbo on Nov 23, 2010 13:56:15 GMT -5
I commented on this dude's blog when he posted this, saying pretty much the same things as Ron. He replied, saying that most of what was said in the video was just post-tourney disappointment and that he'll be back next year.
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Post by inzeos on Nov 23, 2010 15:02:44 GMT -5
Sounds like he needs to get the sand out of his girl thingy. Maybe some vagasil?
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Post by warmasterprimus on Nov 23, 2010 20:41:18 GMT -5
Sounds like he needs to get the sand out of his girl thingy. Maybe some vagasil? I think that's unfair. In terms of his reaction, like he's said since, he was emotional after the results (he was surprised by the scores he got) but this short video doesn't invalidate the good weekend he had. I think that there was a misunderstanding about comp that lead to this. For some, weak = comp. He didn't presubmit, and he said that was his fault. That alone would have went a long way to getting the issue cleared up. Seems like a bit of an oversight on his part. In terms of his painting, from that one pic, it doesn't look that great, but you're also blowing up the mini 5X its size. When looking at my stuff blown up, I start questioning my painting ability as well.
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Nov 23, 2010 22:11:26 GMT -5
Sounds like he needs to get the sand out of his girl thingy. Maybe some vagasil? I think that's unfair. In terms of his reaction, like he's said since, he was emotional after the results (he was surprised by the scores he got) but this short video doesn't invalidate the good weekend he had. I think that there was a misunderstanding about comp that lead to this. For some, weak = comp. He didn't presubmit, and he said that was his fault. That alone would have went a long way to getting the issue cleared up. Seems like a bit of an oversight on his part. In terms of his painting, from that one pic, it doesn't look that great, but you're also blowing up the mini 5X its size. When looking at my stuff blown up, I start questioning my painting ability as well. Very well said.
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Post by fett14622 on Nov 24, 2010 8:22:08 GMT -5
If you do shrink it down. It dose look better. But that's just one model in his army. That's not cool that he said F.U. to daboyz
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Post by Brotha Blood on Nov 24, 2010 10:46:34 GMT -5
It looked like homeboy was going to cry there for a moment. That would of been sad.
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