Sprue Posse GT

[hyv3mynd]

I'm sure you've seen this if you follow dakka, but I found it very interesting.

Sprue Posse GT was last weekend. This was a small (22ish) GT, no comp, painting optional, 2,000pts. These guys take competition seriously. Some lists that were there:

Shep's 16 vehicle leaf blower:
CCS: Melta x 4, OoF, Chimera w/ H.H.FLamer
PBS x 7: Chimera w/ H.H.Flamer
PBS x 7: Chimera w/ H.H.Flamer
Vets: Melta x 3, A.Cannon Chimera w/ H.H.Flamer
Vets: Melta x 3, A.Cannon Chimera w/ H.H.Flamer
Vets: Melta x 3, A.Cannon Chimera w/ H.H.Flamer
Vets: Melta x 3, A.Cannon Chimera w/ H.H.Flamer
Vendetta w/H.Bolters
Vendetta w/H.Bolters
Vendetta w/H.Bolters
Hydras x 2: 1 x H.H.Flamer
Hydras x 2: 1 x H.H.Flamer
Hydras x 2: 1 x H.H.Flamer

Reecius's Bjorn Fangs (19 missiles, 4 lascannons, 2 assault cannons):
Bjorn
Rune Priest: JotWW, Storm Caller
Dread: L.Cannon, H.Flamer
Dread: L.Cannon, H.Flamer
Dread: Assault Cannon, S.Bolter
G.Hunters x 5: Flamer
G.Hunters x 5: Flamer
G.Hunters x 5: Melta, Razorback, Twin Assault Cannon
Typhoon
Typhoon
TWC: Fist, Shield (Thunderhorse!)
Long Fangs x 6: M.Launcher x 5, Lazorback
Long Fangs x 6: M.Launcher x 5, Lazorback
Long Fangs x 6: M.Launcher x 5, Razorback, Assault Cannon

Blackmoor's DE (28 str8 lances!):
Baron
Trueborn x 4: Blaster x 4, Venom, dual s.cannon
Trueborn x 4: Blaster x 4, Venom, dual s.cannon
Trueborn x 4: Blaster x 4, Venom, dual s.cannon
Warriors x 5: Blaster, Raider, Flicker, N.Shield
Warriors x 5: Blaster, Raider, Flicker, N.Shield
Warriors x 5: Blaster, Raider, Flicker, N.Shield
Hellions x 10
Warriors x 20: Syrabrite, Agoniser, D.Lance x 2
Ravager
Ravager
Razorwing

That's just some of them. Guess who won? Chaos Space Marines!
Demon Prince: Mark of Nurgle, Warptime, Wings
Chaos Lord: Bike, Mark of Nurgle, Plague Bringer, Combi-Melta
Chaos Dreadnought: CCW X 2, Heavy Flamer, Storm Bolter
6 Plague Marines w/ Champion: Pfist, Combi-Plasma, Plasmagun X 2 Rhino w/Combi-Melta
6 Plague Marines w/ Champion: Pfist, Combi-Flamer, Flamer X 2 Rhino w/Combi-Melta
6 Plague Marines w/ Champion: Pfist, Combi-Melta, Meltagun X 2 Rhino w/Combi -Melta
7 Plague Marines: Plasmagun X 2 Rhino w/Combi-Melta
Predator: Twin-Linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Defiler: CCW X 2, Heavy Flamer, Battle Cannon
Defiler: CCW X 2, Heavy Flamer, Battle Cannon

I think this guy won best overall and best painted. No oblits, one prince, and some outside the box choices. I think this was a great example of how IG/SW aren't necessarily overpowered. This guy beat a field that was 28% space wolves and more "competitive" builds...

[evil_red_orks]

"I think this was a great example of how IG/SW aren't necessarily overpowered."


Ahhh, both codex's are ridiculous, it just sounds like the better player won thats all.

[hyv3mynd]

IDK man, I've only lost once to SW (chumby) and have yet to lose a game to IG. Granted , we don't have many hardcore players of either.

I agree that the better player won. I don't think codex trumps a talented general. I like how this happened two weeks after Alessio directly responded on BoLS about how broken the CSM codex is, in a time when so many people naysay the codex, in a field of some of the best SW and IG players.

[Ranger Dude]

I personally don't think the problem people have with CSM has to do with being underpowered or any thing like that. I think it's the lack of flavor. IT's chaos, and yet it's probably the most bland codex out there right now (except maybe necrons). And it's even more of an issue since the previous version was SO d**n COOL!!!!

but that's just my .02

[MajorSoB]

Really Gabe it isn't that much of a surprise as you might first think. Here is why:

1) First list, Imperial Guard "Leafblower":

Really this is a mech guard list and not a leafblower since it lacks the large blast templet weapons that are more common with the Medusa builds. Hydras are great for denying invulnerable saves for skimmers but are not as affective as Medusa against mech builds and troops. Every Chimera chassis has Flamers instead of Heavy Bolters which are used to increase the ability to take out light armor in a leafblower. Flamers dont have the range. While the vendettas should have worked ( mobile lascannons ), if he deep struck them or moved them, it would severely change the amount of shots he could produce from each. If victory was mission dependent and you needed scoring units, the guards list only has 4 melta vets squads that dont last long when you pop them out of their chimeras. Plague marines are a tad better for durability.

2)Bjorn's Fangs, Space Wolves

A decent list working most of its tricks off of the Long Fangs for firepower, TWC for assault with the dreads rear guarding the fangs. Lacking higher strength and AP denying templets as well as only 15 scoring marines. Basic troops are not as durable as plague marines.

3)Blackmoor's Flying Circus

Lots of higher AP and tank busting goodness, but defintely some durability issues with 3 min squads of toughness 3 troops in raiders. Yes you have a large squad of hellions but if you are using them as assault you might lose them. I will bet on a winged Nurgle prince to counter them most days. Tough 3 troops vs tough 5 troops usually goes in the favor of Nurgle.

Think of it like this. The Nurgle army had 25 toughness 5, FNP marines in it. They are hard as hell to kill. If the missions were troop based ( which the missions in the book are! ) the clear advantage is in the Chaos player's favor. IMO this chaos build is a decent build since it packs a good amount of points in its core, has higher strength, AP denying templetes, some long range firepower from the pred ( not the best choice but can be affective! ) as well as a decent assault/ counter assault threat. I can see how that Nurgle build competed.

Good points Aaron, I agree that when all is said and done, it comes down to who and how a particular list is used but please understand, some lists are still better than others, especially given the nature of the missions. As for the BoLS articles with Alessio, he admitted how simplified and dumbed down the current Chaos codex was. He stated simplifying was his goal. This is the reason you see either cheap generic marines or plague marines as core in most armies. Chaos used to be alot cooler and more fun to play but now they are very bland since the legions special abilities were neutered out of this codex. Talk with some older players about Black Book Chaos or the last edition and they will explain how much more flavor they once had.

[hyv3mynd]

Yeah plague marines are great in objective missions no doubt.

He did bring a lot of melta, but what really hit my radar is each plague marine unit is equipped differently. Melta, flamer, plasma, fists, and one different size.

One prince instead of 2. A lord on a bike with no bike unit to join. Chaos dreads are seen as highly uncompetitive due to them going crazy allthough he mitigated that with short range shooting weapon which largely won't hurt his own army.

What I'm getting at here is he took first at an "Ard boyz" style event with the least spammy and most compy list there. I know Dave is an amazing player. He's been using the same list for a year and has placed in the top 3 in several tournaments.

[MajorSoB]

Yes, I saw what he brought, but he had plenty of spam as well some parts that are equally as hard or harder in some cases to deal with than the Nurgle list you have faced of mine.

-He took 3 identical squads with the only variance being the special weapons. Each squad contains Champ with fist in a rhino with a combi-melta. By giving each champ a combi weapon he figured out how to squeeze 3 specials into each squad. Lastly, plague marines have a sacred number of 7, not 6, but thanks to Alessio you will no longer find that the current codex.

-I did count two identical Defilers in his list.

-This list has 4 monstrous creatures in it (two defilers, daemon prince, and dready.) All of these are huge pain in butts to deal with in close combat. The defilers and the dready also shoot as opposed to a second prince that is more pricey but has no ranged attack.

-The lord on bike has a two fold purpose. It can 1) zip up and melta a tank and 2) engage and expect to kill characters or certain troop squads with the Plague Bringer. Its a solid choice.

I understand what you are getting at and your point is necessarily valid. Sure the person playing this list did it well and won, props to him! Understand though, this list is an example of stealth comp as opposed to an upfront hard list. You can look at my Nurgle army and understand the threats it has, yes it's kinda scary but it is upfront and honest. This list has some of the threats disguised and may not be as obvious when you first see the army. It's on par don't kid yourself.

Let me illustrate:

If this list were to play mine and go first:

I have to take 2 defiler templets and 3 lascannons first turn into my oblits. With good dice and low scatter he could wipe out half of them or more with his cheapers units. Next move would be for him to move 4 ( not three ) rhinos forward, all with combi meltas and pop smoke. Dready moves up and runs, bike flanks, and the prince works cover or rhino screen moving forward.

How do I counter? First off how many oblits are left? Who do I shoot? If I don't kill the defilers I take more templets. If I don't kill the rhinos, I get 4 meltas next turn and 4 ( not three ) squads of marines that are better equipped then mine. He also has 25 plague marines as opposed to my 21( less one that martyrs itself for the greater daemon. ) Yeah I got two princes but I have to fight his with one, and who do I go after with the second, the bike or the dready? I gotta stall until I get in the greater daemon too...

I hope you can see from this scenario that this list is on par and in some cases better than mine. Yes Dave played it well but it still is a hard list.