nutter
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Ben "Ginger Gotee" Lucko
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Post by nutter on Mar 16, 2011 18:40:23 GMT -5
I think for the rifleman the better version is the ass cannon, TL auto cannon. 4 s7 rending shots and 2 str 8 shots. Your effective shooting range is still pretty large at 30" and now you have something that can Pen that Land-raider or Russ.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Mar 16, 2011 18:59:46 GMT -5
God that's going to be annoying. Especially in cover.
roll to hit roll to pen 4 + cover damage table re-roll psychic test to ignore stun/shake
5 chances to avoid damage results Only way to kill it is hit, pen, fail cover, and roll 5+ twice on the chart
GK can bring techmarines right? Throw one in to repair damage and you have a rediculous firebase.
Looks like CC is your best bet, at least riflemen will only be str6 without DCCW.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Mar 16, 2011 22:46:58 GMT -5
I brought some cheese to go with the whine! ;D
Holy crap the "rifleman" dread ( oh, how I hate that name! ) is good but still suffers from a huge flaw....(drumroll)....IT DOESNT FIGHT WELL IN CLOSE COMBAT! Without a powerfist/weapon it is only strength 6 in close combat with normal saves. Assault the d**n thing (outflankers still work well!) or blow it up with some meltas ( yep, speeders with meltas are still good). You can deep strike terminators next to it too. There is alot in the Nid list too that has rending and can assault the crap out of it right? (Genestealers, yrgamils, raveners, trygons, etc). You know it is going to be sitting near you opponent's table edge, so maneuver to use terrain to block it's LOS, use smoke, screen you vehicles, etc until you get to it. Grey Knights have some weakness in tank hunting. Yeah this dread helps but isnt a cure all. Arent autocannons AP4 as well, meaning you get saves with your monstrous creatures too?
Lastly, were you serious about using a techmarine to repair the dread? Seriously? Well take it from someone who used to try this back in the day with my Iron Hands, it almost never works. Fun and fluffy, yes, but a huge point sink and almost never affective. If you don't believe me, try it!
I understand GKs are going to change the game just like ever other broken codex GW has released in the past few years. Best advice I can give is to stop MathHammering the game and just play it. This game used to be fun you know back in the dark days when all us old timers used to just play the game and left the numbers crunching to the accountants and the Alstate insurance salesmen! ;D
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Garou24
Chapter Master
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Post by Garou24 on Mar 17, 2011 17:39:57 GMT -5
Doug, the real reason the Rifleman Dreadnought doesn't fight well in close combat is because is not because of this lack of CC weapons.... its because its never on the table! Its sitting on a shelf where it belongs. Maybe its just me, but the rifleman dread is god awful to look at and I cringe when I see someone playing it. Yeah 4 S8 twin linked shots is cool.... but not cool enough to make one of those dreadnoughts But this is coming from someone who paints first and plays second
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Mar 18, 2011 1:24:28 GMT -5
Well played sir!
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sinistermind
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Post by sinistermind on Mar 18, 2011 12:36:38 GMT -5
valid points, although judging by the rest of the army i dont see a need for a close range dreadnaught unless you have points to spare(not gunna happen in this army) between grey knights and termies and purifiers that all have force weapons(not even considering the special force weapons), what would be the need for a dreadnaught in CC in most cases?
yea you can invest stealers/termies/drop-pod units/etc... or firepower to kill my 135pt-ish dread, while thats one less unit for my knights to kill all at once
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Post by Goldeagle on Mar 18, 2011 18:56:26 GMT -5
I can see taking one in a list which has a Stormraven. Charging a dreadnought out of a skimmer is pretty cool, even if it won't necessarily be the best build.
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Post by VenoMinoN on Mar 18, 2011 20:49:47 GMT -5
I played the Rifleman Dread against James P's Nid list, and it got nasty on some people.
Turn 1 - Kill a warrior on a victory point Turn 2 - 3 Wounds, 2 unsaved on a Trygon Turn 3 - 4 Wounds, 3 unsaved on a Hive Tyrant, killing him broke synapse with his right flank Turn 4 - Get assaulted by leftovers of a Genestealer squad. they stick till assault of my turn, loses an arm Turn 5 - Finishes off last wound on a Hive Guard Turn 6 - Shoots at Warrior again for 1 wound
Obviously that is some unlucky saves by James, but he alone took out parts of a Trygon, Hive Tyrant, Warrior squad, Genestealer squad, and Hive Guard. was stuned twice and broke out to keep shooting (same thing happened with my Raven till it kablooey'd) I played a Dreadknight in the same slot a game before and the difference was night and day for 10 less points and more survivability.
Of course this guy doesn't fight well in CC, but isn't that what THE ENTIRE ARMY does well? I'll just plop him in the centermost piece of terrain on my edge and fire. If you spend time to hunt him down, its either with DS, and I will run some termys over to shut that down, or Outflank, which I will run some Termys over to shut that down. Also btw when did S6 in melee become a BAD thing??? I'm sure its the Tau in me but that hits on a 2 against any model that isn't monstrous.
Edit - forgot I could have piggy-butt it off the Raven - even more versatility, but I wanted to try the Ass/TL auto build but didn't want to get stuck far away and wasting the 24" shots. If I can drop them in the middle of trees, might change my mind.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Mar 18, 2011 22:53:18 GMT -5
I can see taking one in a list which has a Stormraven. Charging a dreadnought out of a skimmer is pretty cool, even if it won't necessarily be the best build. I agree that charging a dreadnought from the stormraven is cool, I just think the standard melta/power weapon dread is cheaper and more affective if you are going to use it in close combat. I am not saying the rifleman is bad just not the best. The analogy that you use from your battle report fails to account for your opponent's inability to make a save. On average you got way more from that dready than you should have. I understand that is why we play the game and its fun when something outperforms expectations. Maybe its the whole name, rifleman. OK if you play me and insist on using calling it your "rifleman" dreadnought, it has to be modeled with chaps, a holster, silver star and a cowboy hat. That is the only way I will allow you to keep referring to it as the rifleman. I mean whats next the azz-pirate dread, complete with assault cannon, wooden leg and parrot on its shoulder???
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Post by fishboy on Mar 19, 2011 6:44:03 GMT -5
If you think about the army as a whole there are many better options than a dread for CC in the GK list. The ability to massive spam thunder hammers that could also be ST10 is great. I played GK in the past and their weakness was their inability to pop vehicles. This codex fixes that with many options. I think the rifle man will fit my list well....but I am magnatizing the arms so I will have other options too heheh.
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Post by Goldeagle on Mar 19, 2011 8:28:16 GMT -5
Doug, I was responding to this point from sinistermind:
"i dont see a need for a close range dreadnaught"
so I completely agree with you. Wonder how long it will be until we see a dreadie show up in a cowboy hat?
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sinistermind
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Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
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Post by sinistermind on Mar 19, 2011 12:35:02 GMT -5
yea i agree about the stormraven and i fully plan on putting my forgeworld grey knights venerable dread in my stormraven,
what i was refering to as no need for close range was the cheap heavy slot regular dread, as i see it i would never use the venerable for a twin autocannon, nor would i use the regular for close range/assualt (unless maybe if it had like assualt cannon/ missile or dccw/ assualt cannon)
either way i am in the process of magnetizing both... ;D
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Post by VenoMinoN on Mar 19, 2011 12:57:16 GMT -5
so its okay to take this form of dreadnought as long as I do not call it a rifleman? That's fine, I will call him Heavyarms Hey, just be glad he's not known as the Ass-Blaster
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Post by fishboy on Mar 19, 2011 18:21:37 GMT -5
Assblaster....Shaun....its all the same hehehe.
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