Attached IC's and Defenders React Move

[Icemyn]

Long story short:
In a game yesterday vs. hyv3mynd's Dark Eldar he intended to charge and surround my unit of Immortals with Attached overlord and easily had the movement to do so. The intention was to keep my IC locked inside his own unit and outside of the fight. I cited the FAQ which states:

Q: An Independent Character attached to a unit that is
reacting to being assaulted, or making a pile-in move,
must move before other friendly models to attempt to
get in base contact with an enemy. What happens if
the Independent Character is blocked from getting to
enemy models by friendly models around him? (p49)
A: If it is possible to move friendly models out of the
way to make space for the Independent Character then
they must move first. Followed by the Independent
Character and finally the rest of the unit can move. If
the Independent Character is still unable to make it
into base contact he must move as close to the enemy
as possible.

His counter argument was that models touching one of his models are for all intents and purposes "locked" and it is not possible to move them. Though I cannot find a rule anywhere in the BGB that says anything of the sort.

The reason it says if possible in my mind is because there are scenarios where models cannot be moved out of the way:

Into impassable Terrain
Into within 1 inch of an enemy model that is not part of the assaulting unit.
Through an unengaged friendly unit.
etc..

In the end it was ruled that I could not move models that were engaged only models that were also "trapped" inside. It ended up not making any difference as I had a path out of the unit and into his Beasts.

Now the main reason I ask is this is a tactic I use alot with my Necrons to hide the Lord or Overlord inside the unit so that I get to react with the model and better choose my Mindshackle target.

Now its entirely plausible that I missed the rule somewhere that says you cant move engaged models for any reason and if thats the case Id like to know. Going forward Id just like a precedent for at least our gaming group going forward so that I can adjust my tactics accordingly.

As for the ruling, I appreciate that Ben made a timely decision one way or the other with the information that he had, even though it didn't go my way. Additionally, Aaron was a great opponent through the rules entanglement and ended up winning this game fairly handily.

-Dean-

[Goldeagle]

Even though the BRB doesn't say you can't move a locked model, the word locked to cover assaults strongly implies it. Also note that locked in assault was chosen over less decisive wording like participating in assault.

Thus, seems to me that locked models should not be included under the "If it is possible to move friendly models ..." statement.

Interesting question. I agree with Aaron's argument and think Ben made the right call, but rules lawyer I am not.

[nutter]

Yeah I've sent out a couple of email's in regards to this, I still think that once it comes time to react that the you would be able to move any model just not ones that have been previously based,

The big issue is there is no list of what a based model can and cannot do so, one of the scenarios that I used a precedent on why this wouldn't work is based on how defenders react on a second unit joining a assault on a later turn.

You have new unit that comes in, once the assaulter moves the defender can react to that new unit with a 6inch move, so if based models were able to react and move then they, in theory, could leave the first unit and those attackers would be left out of the combat, the Rules as interpreted are that only none based models may react (pg.41 little rulebook)

So base on that Example of limitations on a based model, is why I ruled that you cannot move a Based model.

[Icemyn]

Ben your scenario is wrong because Defenders React says what models are allowed to move and it states that only unengaged models may "counter charge" So when the second unit charges into the existing combat the rules for unengaged models still apply.

Again I am not trying to move an engaged Independant Character intending to choose who to fight I am following the FAQ which states that you can move friendly models out of the way to make it to combat.

Looking at the FAQ again I think that I actually misread it:

A: If it is possible to move friendly models out of the
way to make space for the Independent Character then
they must move first. Followed by the Independent
Character and finally the rest of the unit can move. If
the Independent Character is still unable to make it
into base contact he must move as close to the enemy
as possible.

The FAQ changes the Defenders React order so that the IC doesn't always React fist, it just allows you to react with other models first to allow the movement of the IC.

Good news is it looks like you made the right call Ben .
Bad News is I have to be more careful with the MSS wielding lords.