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Post by crimthaan on Apr 27, 2012 8:47:01 GMT -5
After spending time this past weekend at Adepticon, playing in the Team Tournament and paying close attention to the championship I have come to the conclusion that vanilla marines simply are not competitive anymore on the tournament circuit. While cheap TH/SS Terminators, Null-Zone, and Combat Tactics are great they just dont seem to stake up against Wolves, Angels, Grey Knights, or Necrons.
What does Dakka think? I understand and DO believe in the idea that player trumps army (as Courtney proves all the time), but playing an uphill battle every match is just painful. Does Daboyz believe there is still a competitive edge left to the Vanilla marines? If so, what sort of list would you see?
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Apr 27, 2012 8:53:24 GMT -5
What does dakka think?
go ask them.
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Post by professor on Apr 27, 2012 8:56:57 GMT -5
This is not DakkaDakka, but I think C:SM is still a decent codex. The new SM variants are definitely more sexy overall, and more powerful.
I was going to make an argument for why I thought C:SM had some advantages over the other PA variants but once I started I realized that (other than mentioning Vulkan) there really are not any advantages. In general C:SM units are weaker in CC, have conflicting weapon choices - heavies and specials - and have less effective shooting...
You can field a bike army with C:SM?
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Post by professor on Apr 27, 2012 9:06:08 GMT -5
No just usually remove the 'dakka' from the comment. It is like sending a thank you letter to your mom and brother but calling them both Fred  (no offense if your mom's name is Fred) It makes people think they are an afterthought. |
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Post by crimthaan on Apr 27, 2012 9:08:32 GMT -5
No just usually remove the 'dakka' from the comment. It is like sending a thank you letter to your mom and brother but calling them both Fred (no offense if your mom's name is Fred) It makes people think they are an afterthought. Yep...I'm a moron, haha |
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Post by hyv3mynd on Apr 27, 2012 10:04:56 GMT -5
I believe Ben Mohlie won the last boston brawl with his salamanders tho I never saw the list.
I think Dameon Green also took a GT a few months back with his white scars. Something like 3 riflemen, 6 typhoons, 3 thunderfires, khan and some bikers.
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Post by Staff on Apr 27, 2012 10:21:59 GMT -5
Short answer- Yes, they are still competitive
speaking as a Space Wolf player, Codex marines can shoot the piss out of us. Yes, we have long fangs, but beyond them we don't have much else in long range fire power that codex marines don't already have (maybe living lightening). Codex marines have thunderfire cannons, Bs 4 Attack bikes/ bikers, heavy weapons in their scoring troops units and what I would argue to be the best unit in the codex- Sternguard
Also just based of the method of play and list structures allows for the codex marines to get more shots in a list then wolves. Yes our long fangs can put out up to 15 heavy weapon shots a turn but those 2-3 squads comprise between 75-100% of our 12 inch + firepower and most of our points will be sunk into grey hunter packs.
Compare that against codex marines with a heavy weapon in each tactical squad, give them a razor back for a special weapon plus combi armed Sergent. Support them with a few preds (dakka are 30 points cheaper then the standard long fang pack/ auto+las is about equal) or thunderfire cannon or land speeder typhoons, Auto cannon dreads, missile devastators or sternguard and you have us beat at range.
I know it's not unheard of for wolves to play auto cannon dreads or typhoons but its far from common for us to do so.
Add in your smaller squad size and combat tactics which will make combats shorter, giving codex marines more chances to shoot at a given a opponent.
Codex marines should be made to play the shooting game
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(no offense if your mom's name is Fred) It makes people think they are an afterthought.