Need some insight on necrons

[pogysnacks]

Been building up a cron list for the last month, trying to manipulate the storm rules and night fighting to get my combat units into the fray without getting shredded..
I really want to use Lychguard, with a res lord and veil they can be really nasty i feel, the only issue is Warscythes or shields?
Testing out the scythes, i combo them with smaller units of whip coil wraiths (3-4) and it seems to pretty much guarantee that whatever they hit is going to die, not to mention they do a good job carving through tanks
I havnt tried the shields out yet, but i also havnt played against something along the lines of IG, or Grey Knights with all their firepower...Anyone got any experience or input?

[netter]

I don't have tons of experience with the new crons, but I've played about a dozen games with a close combat list. I've also played them against a nice variety of lists.

I field a lot of lych guard and have never bothered with the scythes. The extra punch would be nice but a 3+ save on a model worth that many points is too little, as it is, to pass up the invulnerable option. There are simply too many armour negating weapons out there (especially in combat, at higher initiative) to deal with. The whip coil wraith combo sounds cool but isn't fool proof (only models in contact with the wraiths are affected). It also means that a lot of points are tied up to get your desired result.

I field mine with shields and pop an overlord (res orb in hand) in with a warscythe to deal with armour. It works well and the unit can take a lot of pain (survived thunderwolf cav assault and won the combat).

Because 40k is a shooting game, my long range plan is to get the night scythe models, whenever they finally come out, to get them into combat quickly, before they are shot to death. A 3+ armour with 4+ reanimate only does so much.

The veil is what I'm currently using and it does okay but the night scythes are what I want. Only one unit on the move like that doesn't cut it.

IG is a tough one, especially if they have a lot of armour. Same goes for tau. I think you just don't have enough units, typically, to deal with all the ranged threats before they deal with you. If they have a lot tied up in blobs, then they die pretty quick, especially against wraiths. If it is a shootier cron list then it's different.

Grey Knights just kill you. The only units build I can think of (and its very stupid) to hold them is 2 overlords, each with 5 lord courts, with mindshackles scarabs all around. The hope is that the GKs will fail enough tests and slaughter themselves before the rest beat you down. Otherwise, you die.

It would really have been nice, considering the point cost, to have been able to customize lychguard units to have warscythe and shield models in the same unit. WS 5 might have been nice, too.

I'm definitely not the best 40k player in the world, so someone else may have a different take. I've played them a bit and that's what I have found, so far. Hope it helps.

netter

[Icemyn]

If you want to play Lychguard you almost have to play them with shields especially with the stormlord. All the Missile Launchers and lascannons that are kept out of range are going to want to shoot something through night fight and your lychguard want to be close which really only serves to make them targets. You will almost never get the shield bounce to work so I wouldn't plan on that but it can be fun when it happens.

One Tactic I have heard of is put Zandrekh in a night scythe and Obyron with the Lychguard. Turbo the Scythe 36" and then veil obyron within 6" of it without scattering. Obviously I haven't tried this and has questionable legality but could be fun nonetheless.

All that being said I don't think Lychguard are very good right now for 45/model you get a wraith with a whip coil who has 2 wounds and always a 3++ save. So min size sword and board Lychguard is 225 points you could get 6 wraiths 2 with coils and 1 with a pistol for wound allocation shenanigans for 235 points. Outside of TH/SS Terminators the wraiths are better in nearly every scenario. To Ice the cake you don't need any strange tricks to make the wraiths get to combat they are almost a guarantee regardless of scenario to be in combat turn 2.

Finally the only "successful" Stormlord lists Ive seen are Wraith Heavy and play a bit of a scarab farm as well. Very fast units that move under the cover of darkness with no shooting to speak of so aren't hurt by the continued night fight. YMMV though.

[professor]

Comparing Lychguard to Wraiths is not a straight up 1 to 1 tradeoff. While Wraiths are more efficient, they do not compete for the same force org slot so you can include both.

Edit: This is all based on the Sword and Board variant - w/ only RP to protect them (basically a 5++) and cover slower them down even more than they are, the Warcythes do not seem to work well.

I have played against Lychguard several times since Necrons came out. From a pure mathematical standpoint (provided at least one Lychguard survives) they have the equivalent of a 2+ save when you include a Res Orb (2/3 saves + 1/3 * 1/2 == 5/6 survive). Also, with their shields and a Res Orb they are better than TH/SS Terminators in terms of survivability (1/2 saves + 1/2*1/2 == 3/4 survive).

On top of that they are T5 which helps to mitigate a significant amount of small arms fire. That said, they are more expensive than first glance because you really want a Res Orb in the unit on a Lord with a WarScythe (and MSS) to rip open vehicles.

I think you really need to run a unit of 7 or 8 of these guys with that Lord to give you a good chance to make those extra RP rolls.

The real question is what do you want to do with the Lychguard. If you want to use them to play a cleanup role and to protect your gunline as a viable counter charge/screening unit then I think they are great. If you want them to go out and smash the enemy, they are a little slow to do this. That scenario is where Wraiths and Scarabs really shine.

Even given their slower speed, I think Lychguard can be effectively used as the second wave of units hitting after Wraiths and Scarabs have pushed out and shredded some vehicles. As for the Veil, I would be inclined to use it for a mobile shooting unit rather than an slow CC unit that the enemy can just run away from.

[pogysnacks]

I have modeled both variants of lychguard 2and units of 7, so ill be trying both out and constantly be adjusting the list, wraiths are just nasty so ill be using anywhere between 10-1210-12 of them, the only concern is in 1850 having enough points for spiders immortals scarabs and another overlord