July's 2nd Saturday Event

[pogysnacks]

Setting up terrain is not a new concept its been apart of fantasy for years it is overlooked though, just set up terrain as per normal tournament and let the individual players set up their fortifications..problem solved

[sinistermind]

I would prefer fortifications be in, i dont think there THAT good... whether doing the whole deployment like the ruleset states OR have set tables and just allow people to "shimmy" terrain if they have a fortress to set up

[MajorSoB]

You are missing the point. Setting terrain is a skill and also offers balance. Nothing screws an army more than when you draw a table that completely shafts your army. Again terrain setting is very easy and again it is a skill just like list building and any other aspect of the game. Here is how it happens for those of you who don't have books:

1) Each player places his ONE fortification that he can buy in his half of the table once sides have been determined.

2) Divide the board into 6 2x2 sections. Roll a d3 in each for terrain saturation.

3) Alternate each player placing a piece of terrain until it all has been distributed.

So this would take 15 minutes? Really? I will bet anyone here I can successfully accomplish this in less than 5 minutes. Of course you have players that slow play but if they aren't screwing you on terrain set up the will find another way to do it. Seriously this is a non issue that is being made into one because you don't like the unpredictability it entails and you are unfamiliar with the skill that you will have to learn to do this in your sacred competitive format. I suppose if there was a simple math hammer equation associated with terrain setup then it might be a bit more palatable. So tell me one day three of officially having the new set of rules we already are deciding that parts of it need to be thrown away?

I vote we play the game the way it is written in the rules.

[sinistermind]

Jul 2, 2012 14:45:04 GMT -5 MajorSoB said:

You are missing the point. Setting terrain is a skill and also offers balance. Nothing screws an army more than when you draw a table that completely shafts your army. Again terrain setting is very easy and again it is a skill just like list building and any other aspect of the game. Here is how it happens for those of you who don't have books:

1) Each player places his ONE fortification that he can buy in his half of the table once sides have been determined.

2) Divide the board into 6 2x2 sections. Roll a d3 in each for terrain saturation.

3) Alternate each player placing a piece of terrain until it all has been distributed.

So this would take 15 minutes? Really? I will bet anyone here I can successfully accomplish this in less than 5 minutes. Of course you have players that slow play but if they aren't screwing you on terrain set up the will find another way to do it. Seriously this is a non issue that is being made into one because you don't like the unpredictability it entails and you are unfamiliar with the skill that you will have to learn to do this in your sacred competitive format. I suppose if there was a simple math hammer equation associated with terrain setup then it might be a bit more palatable. So tell me one day three of officially having the new set of rules we already are deciding that parts of it need to be thrown away?

I vote we play the game the way it is written in the rules.

i agree with you on this, set terrain doesnt mean balanced it just means its there before you start, the only balance in it is the fact you dont know what table you will be playing on, some have benefits for certain armies.. others negatives.

i would also say deploying terrain gives the same strategy planning as making an army list, it just happens right before the battle

i was merely trying to compromise a solution since alot of players seem to be against fortifications. and terrain deployment

sorry if this is sloppy written from smartphone...

[Smitty]

I was inclined to say no due to lack of terrain at the store but it sounds like people would like to try it. So the compromise will be if you pay for Fortifications you must bring your own fortification to use at the event. Everyone will set up each table with your opponent per the rule book at the start of each round.

[hyv3mynd]

I'll play anything. Format has never kept me home from an event. Was just trying to say if people complained about cheesy lists before, now it's cheesy lists, fortifications, and terrain set up. It'll probably be fine in the short run until people figure out how to break it.

I just hope you have 18 pieces of terrain available at every table because if I roll all 3's, I'm definitely putting down all 9. I've got these aegis lines lying around from my rifleman conversions too, my genestealers will love guaranteed 4+ cover to infiltrate into. Ymgarls will always have nice hidey homes too ;D

[sinistermind]

Sorry just a few quick rules questions since i wont own my own book probably until the tournament day(to support millennium ;D), how many pts are aegis defense line without turret?

And what is an "ally of convenience" ? Just no benefits and no negatives? And to take allies you must fill both compulsory of 1hq 2 troops from both? also are special characters allowed for for the allied detachment? and can "ally of convenience" independant characters join main force units or vice versa? or is that battle-brother only?

P.s since hearing of allies i really want to do nurgle chaos with some death korps ig infantry!!!

[Horst]

Jul 2, 2012 18:22:06 GMT -5 sinistermind said:

Sorry just a few quick rules questions since i wont own my own book probably until the tournament day(to support millennium ;D), how many pts are aegis defense line without turret?

And what is an "ally of convenience" ? Just no benefits and no negatives? And to take allies you must fill both compulsory of 1hq 2 troops from both? also are special characters allowed for for the allied detachment? and can "ally of convenience" independant characters join main force units or vice versa? or is that battle-brother only?

P.s since hearing of allies i really want to do nurgle chaos with some death korps ig infantry!!!

1) Aegis line without turret is 50 points

2) Ally of convenience basically just means the units can't interact. You can't cast spells between allies, you can't have IC's join allied units, you don't get warlord bonuses on allied units.

3) 1 HQ 2 Troop are still compulsory from your primary force, If you want to take allies, 1 HQ 1 Troop are compulsory from your allied force (so no taking a squad of terminators as allies without a captain + tac marines). You can take allied 1 from every FOC slot except troops, of which you can have 2. So, you could take 100+ DKoK guardsmen in 2 platoons, and a squad of russes as a heavy choice if you want to back up your death guard primary force.

You can take 1 allied detachment per primary force, and you can have 2 primary forces in games over 2000 points. So, at 2000 points, you can legitimately use 3 different codex. Its like SoB and DH before the new codex all over again!

[sinistermind]

wow thats crazy at 2k.

only question i have now is what units score? or even are most missions objective based?

[Horst]

Didn't read the part about missions...

but troops are scoring, unless in vehicles or buildings, and vehicles never score. (so no more capping objectives with a rhino full of marines).

For allies, Battle Brothers and Allies of Convenience troops both are scoring.

[hyv3mynd]

Be careful with the wording of allies of convenience. I believe it says they treat your army as enemy models so if you bring a farseer and libby, the runes hurt the libby too.

Troops are still scoring with the normal codex caveats. Units in transports cannot score and transports cannot contest. One mission allows heavies to score (even vehicles) and one mision allows fast to score.

[sinistermind]

Thanks guys! I will also browse over a friends book but this will hold me off till i get one at millennium

[warmasterprimus]

Did Nids get access to fortifications?

[Horst]

Nothing says nids CANT take fortifications, so I assume they can.

Some really cool modeling opportunities there for infested buildings.

I won a skyshield like 2 years ago at a tournament in Binghamton... maybe I should dust it off. Looks like it would really help out a blood angels army.

[lordnurgle]

just for the record. im not againgst fortifications. It's just for a "get to know the game" tourney, it seems a little much. Plus theres many people (some in my own group) that don't have their own place to play, so they don't own terrain.

I like the idea of fortifications and allies. I guess im finally getting a bit cynical with GW, and I see both as a cash grab.

I did see someone say that you'd have to bring your own terrain as a "compromise". I would be pretty upset If i brought an army I bought/painted and someone else just got to pick a fortification off the shelf as part of their points total. models arent rotinely loaned out of the case, fortifications should not be either. plus if the store is loaning out fortifications each tourney, then thats less terrain that stays on the tables.

That being said, with the new allies rules. I think it's finally time to start working on a couple squads of sqauts using the imp guard list.