Smitty
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Marines die, thats what we're here for, But the Marine Corps lives 4ever & that means YOU live 4ever
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Post by Smitty on Jun 30, 2012 13:31:40 GMT -5
Sorry for the short notice but I've been waiting for 6th to drop before sending this out. After speaking with Travis July's event will be a learn 6th event. The cost will be standard $10, points will be 1500, with 2 hrs rounds. If the rounds go faster and don't need 2 hrs I will be open to adding a round if people want. The goal is to help each other through the new rules and have a good time. The prizes support will be divided into X equal parts and given out randomly at the end by drawing names out of a hat. (X will be base on how many show up and prize support collected) I will still pair people based on their previous round results but I will not be ranking overall and so on. Hope to see you guys there.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jun 30, 2012 19:18:21 GMT -5
Allies and fortifications?
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Post by ccourtney on Jun 30, 2012 22:04:23 GMT -5
Since this is a learning tournament and the points are low and winning / loosing really doesn't matter, could we bring multiple lists / codex's and change up what we are playing from game to game? Would be cool to get in some games with different units to see how they work.
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sinistermind
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Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
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Post by sinistermind on Jun 30, 2012 23:37:43 GMT -5
I would think allies and forts would be in for a intro to 6th tournament
Thats a great idea about rotating lists if desired no harm if prizes are random...
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Smitty
Sergeant
Marines die, thats what we're here for, But the Marine Corps lives 4ever & that means YOU live 4ever
Posts: 324
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Post by Smitty on Jul 1, 2012 0:34:54 GMT -5
Ok since this is a learning event, allies are good to go, changing armies each round is ok.. I haven't gotten to the fortifications section of the rule book so I'm not sure on that part.. but feel free to give imputed on that..
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jul 1, 2012 6:26:44 GMT -5
TBH I would take a defense line for my tyranids just because area terrain is 5+ now and I can build a line to advance behind.
The book rules for terrain is to set up the table after forts, which may not work for tournaments. If tournaments keep set terrain at each table, the Fortress of Redemption could be easily abused as it blocks so much LoS. Indirect fire units could be safe the the entire game unless you bring flyers.
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Post by lordnurgle on Jul 1, 2012 22:31:59 GMT -5
When we were reading this and playing last night, someone mentioned allies and fortifications. My first response was " theres no way tournaments are gonna allow allies and fortifications".
I guess i can see allies(watch this get abused), but fortifications don't seem doable in a tourney setting. thats just me.
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MajorSoB
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THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
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Post by MajorSoB on Jul 2, 2012 3:28:52 GMT -5
I just reread the Fighting A Battle section paying close attention to the rules for setting up fortifications and terrain. I don't understand why there is so much concern on whether or not to play with fortifications and how having each opponent set their own terrain using the alternating terrain method and the terrain density limit seems like such a hard concept. I can see where it helps certain armies but you have to pay points for fortifications that you could use elsewhere in your army I don't understand the worries about abuse. If we limit terrain and fortifications then maybe we should also limit farseers and cap MCs as well since I see both of them having the potential for abuse.
Once again, playing the game as written sound fun.
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sinistermind
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Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
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Post by sinistermind on Jul 2, 2012 8:51:46 GMT -5
Unfortunately i dont have a rulebook yet but i didnt know forts are set-up before terrain, doesnt that seem alot less abusive if your enemy could end up on the side you just set up your aegis line? Or do you deside table sides first now?
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jul 2, 2012 8:54:09 GMT -5
Like I said, it's a great mechanic for fun games (and this event since we aren't playing for 1st/2nd/3rd) but not for competitive events.
It will easily add 15 minutes to the set up time to pool all the terrain, measure out the six 2x2 sectors and set up.
pg. 126 "players can keep placing terrain until they decide to stop, or they reach the maximum..."
So an IG player with 3 manticores can put their fortress of redemption in their corner, cozy up the manticores behind it fully blocking LoS, and then "decide to stop" placing terrain leaving half of the table fully empty? That sounds fun?
Playing against chaos daemons? Cool I'll take all the impassible terrain pls.
Playing an assault army? Hope you don't roll 3 ones for your terrain allotment.
Letting a writhing worldscape player set up half the table is also amusing.
#5 (pg120) "After all terrain has been placed, players may wish to move or shuffle terrain around a bit in order to make a more aesthetically pleasing battlefield. If both players agree..."
Hope sportsmanship scores leave the tournament scene because now you get dinged for putting all your terrain in the corners if you're a shooty army.
With increased rapid fire shots now and overwatch, assault armies will have 0 chance against a shooty army that puts all their terrain pieces against their table edge and you now have to cross 18" of open ground no matter where you decide to deploy.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jul 2, 2012 8:57:12 GMT -5
Unfortunately i dont have a rulebook yet but i didnt know forts are set-up before terrain, doesnt that seem alot less abusive if your enemy could end up on the side you just set up your aegis line? Or do you deside table sides first now? Step #1 - mission Step #2 - deployment type, players choose half (empty table) Step #3 - put down your fortification Step #4 - divide the table into six 2x2 squares Step #5 - each player sets up their OWN half of the table with d3 terrain pieces per 2x2, but each player can choose to stop placing terrain after placing one piece.
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
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Post by sinistermind on Jul 2, 2012 9:05:41 GMT -5
Unfortunately i dont have a rulebook yet but i didnt know forts are set-up before terrain, doesnt that seem alot less abusive if your enemy could end up on the side you just set up your aegis line? Or do you deside table sides first now? Step #1 - mission Step #2 - deployment type, players choose half (empty table) Step #3 - put down your fortification Step #4 - divide the table into six 2x2 squares Step #5 - each player sets up their OWN half of the table with d3 terrain pieces per 2x2, but each player can choose to stop placing terrain after placing one piece. Well...thats...interesting. cant help but wonder if the tournaments will be run like such, placing terrain every round. It wouldnt matter to me either way i guess, as long as everyones has access to the same fortifications, i think its time to pull out the tau for this event, have yet to ever use them in a tournament. Especially since we can change lists.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Jul 2, 2012 9:12:10 GMT -5
Everyone has access to the same forts, but they cost points. You could buy a fortress of redemption for 220pts and put your 9 broadsides on the walls.
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jdubb
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oh yeah
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Post by jdubb on Jul 2, 2012 9:23:05 GMT -5
Couldn't the tables already be divided into 2x2 squares? Since pre-measuring exists, I don't see how it would matter. I haven't read the rules yet, but if this is the way a tournament goes, that might speed up deployment...
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Post by Staff on Jul 2, 2012 9:51:32 GMT -5
I'd suggest we have the terrain already set up on the field as we have had for our 5th ED Tournys, but allow fortifications and allies so we can play out the rules for them. I think alot of people are over blowing the fortifications/ allies, most of the combos are going to eat up alot of points for not to much being added in.
If you want to buy a Fortess of redemption and hide 3 manicores behind it feel free to, you've spent roughly 800 points on 3 units that scatter their full distance while also limiting additional units in your army to a small area of the map to protect them, not to mention not having hydras (though you'd have to ask Ben if this is a good idea, because wtf would I know about guard tactics)
Same can be said for allies, outside of maybe adding in an objective camper unit or an extra hood/runes I can't think of many times where spending anything over 300 points on units that at best can't share a transport and at worst can't score/ refuse to help a turn would pay out better then those points being spent on your main army.
I think if people try out alot of these "theory" combos they will find that you hamstring your main army for very little gain. Honestly I wouldn't suggest spending more then maybe 100 on fortifications, to get a better save or a skyfire, or maybe 200-350 on allies for some added theme/ fill a small weakness.
tldr- Have pre-set terrain, allow allies/fortifications and after we've learned the flow of the game a little more, use the pre game terrian set up.
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