character infantry

[sinistermind]

so since i do not have the rulebook yet, i have been looking at forums and such and i have come across an interesting fact, paladins and nobz are now classified as infantry-characters? and as such they get to perform critical/precise shots which is on a 6 to(wound?) they choose who takes the wound, while not groundbreaking could cripple certain units (ig blob with commisar, ork mob with nob, general heavy/special weapons within squads)

also i dont know how the look out sir rules work yet but i would think it would also apply here

p.s im very mad they nulled tau target locks in the FAQ

[hyv3mynd]

The new "cheese" is units made up entirely of characters and/or lead by a character with a better armor save than the unit.

Characters that roll at 6 to hit can allocate the hit in shooting and CC. Keep in mind 6th ed allocation is different. Allocated hits must always be in range so a character with a psycannon hitting on 6 can allocate it within the target unit as long as it's in the 24" range and in LoS. CHaracters hitting on 6 in CC must allocate it to a model in B2B.

Lookout Sir allows a model in the same unit to intercept the hit (before saves) on a 4+ or 2+ if the character is also independent.

For paladins and nobs, this means you can take saves one at a time on the closest model to the shooting unit or pass it off on another model in the unit on a 4+ (always before saves). You can never fail a save and then pass it off.

It's not any more broken than diversified allocation in paladins/nob bikers in 5th ed, but it is a LOT slower time wise since you're rolling each save 1 at a time or 4+ lookout then save 1 at a time. It drastically changes nob bikers now as they just count as t5 and get FnP against everything that isn't str10 or ID.

[Icemyn]

Just a quick Clarification, you are allowed to pass off unsaved wounds with "Look out sir!" but only when when the Character has the same save as the rest of the squad. So if your paladins with Draigo in front are rolling saves from the Bolter (AP5) Pool All getting 2+ saves, you would roll all the saves as they are all the same and then when you fail say 2 of them you could "look out sir!"(on a 2+ as he is an IC) after having to allocate to draigo as he is closest. which makes paladins and nobs particularly annoying against small arms fire as they all have multiple wounds and you can choose a different paladin to take each look out sir.
Basically, the new form of wound allocation shenanigans.

Conversely, if you are rolling saves against the Ap2 plasma pool draigo has a 3+ the other paladins have a 5+ so you would have to decide on Look out sirs before rolling saves.

At least that's how I read it. Basically you "look out sir!" on allocation and for same save models allocation happens after rolling saves with different save models allocation happens before saves.

[sonofsanguinius]

Reading through the rules right now, I found the passages in regards to everything discussed here.

Look out sir! Has no limiters other then a friendly model in the same unit within 6 inches. They do not need to have the same armor, or any similar characteristics at all. And the roll can be taken at any time, before the save or if it's failed. (Page 16) This applies to Close Combat as well. But you cannot look out sir a character in a challenge.

A unit full of characters like Paladins or Nobs may only ever make one Look out sir! Roll per wound. Regardless of the number of characters in the unit.


Precision Strikes/Shots (page 63) You can allocate the wound to any model in range or engaged in combat. The base to base or closest models rules do not apply in the case of precision strikes. Meaning if you land a precision strike you can in fact allocate the wound to a special weapon model even if he is clear on the other side of combat. So long as it is engaged.

In shooting you need to be able to see and be in range. But that's it.

Nobs and Paladins are indeed units of characters which has it's advantages and disadvantages.

[hyv3mynd]

Unsaved wounds are only allocated if all models have the same save and you roll them together.

If units have mixed save (p15), you allocate wounds one at a time to the closest model until that model is dead. You cannot allocate a wound to a 2+ model, fail the save, then LOS it off to a 3+ model.

Easy methond:
Character has same save as unit = roll saves, allocate, and LOS
CHaracter has different save as unit = allocate first, LOS second, roll saves third

[sonofsanguinius]

Yeah that's for normal mixed armor wound allocation. That doesn't apply to look out sir. Which is it's own unique rule.

(Directly from the book)

Look Out Sir.

When a Wound (or unsaved Wound) is allocated to one of your characters, and there is another model from the same unit within 6'', he's allowed a Look Out, Sir attempt. This represents the character ducking back further into the unit, holding a comrade in the line of fire, or being pushed aside by a selfless ally. If no model is in range then you cannot make a Look Out, Sir attempt.

- On a roll of 3 or less the Look Out, Sir attempt fails.

- On a roll of 4+, the Look Out, Sir attempt is successful. You must pick a model from the same unit within 6'' and resolve the wound against them instead. This can even be a model that is out of range or line of sight of the Shooting attack.

If the unit only consists of characters, a Look Out, Sir attempt can still be made, with one character within 6'' taking the place of the first victim if the roll is passed. Only one Look Out, Sir attempt can be made per Wound allocated - once the wound has been transferred (or not), no further attempts to reallocate it can be made.


The mixed armor saves rules have no bearing on the Look Out, Sir rule. They are completely separate rule sets. Look Out, Sir would be completely pointless if armor value mattered as characters have options to upgrade their armor beyond the units. Look Out, Sir is an exception to the wound allocation rule. Just like Precisions shots/strikes, and so follows its individual guidelines. Which are as listed above.

[hyv3mynd]

So you're saying a character with a 2+ save leading a formation of 3+ models can take every single 2+ save and then pass failures off on the 3+ guys, effectivelý giving them all terminator armor?

I think you'll find many people disagree.

[sonofsanguinius]

That's the rules as written. No where does it say armor value matters at all in terms of a look out sir roll. Otherwise what's the point of giving your HQ's look out sir?

The simple solution is reposition your firing squad so that single model isn't the closest. Being in the right position accounts for more tactics on both ends.


It honestly falls into the same venue as using something like your transport to purposely block line of sight to the majority of a squad in order to 'snipe' out the special weapons since they are the only model you can see.

It's all about positioning. Can the rule be a little silly if someone tries to shoot you from dead on with that character in front, certainly. But there are ways around it, and he can fail the Look out Sir.

[Icemyn]

Sons you missing the most important part:
"When a Wound (or unsaved Wound) is allocated to one of your characters"

The issue here is allocation, in fifth allocation was at the same time in every step. Now in 6th there are mixed save units and same save units and allocation happens at a different time in each of them.

So as myself and Aaron have said for same save you allocate wounds to the closest model after taking saves. This is the trigger for LOS.

For mixed save units you allocate first to the closest model LOS if that model is able then you make the save.

So yes LOS is a rule of its own but its trigger is allocation which is no longer always at the same time. This is why it mentions wound or unsaved wound, not because you get to choose to move any and all unsaved wounds off your character.

[sonofsanguinius]

Okay never mind -.- this is what I get for reading the rules on my overnight shift when tired.

It's still cheesy but not as cheesy.

I see where I was misinterpreting now.

Still worth popping a 2+/3+ libby with divination primaris power in front of your dev squad though.

[ccourtney]

You guys need to come up with a new abbreviation for "look out sir" because LOS has stood for "line of sight" for years already and your driving me nuts!

[Icemyn]

Jul 8, 2012 14:06:58 GMT -5 ccourtney said:

You guys need to come up with a new abbreviation for "look out sir" because LOS has stood for "line of sight" for years already and your driving me nuts!

I thought the same thing but figured what the hell just go with it.

[nutter]

Losr? Or duck?

[Icemyn]

Nah lets go with LOS! that way its different but similar enough to cause endless confusion.

[crimthaan]

Or just call it the "Red Shift" save.