Deathwing Assault

[nutter]

Okay how we playing this rule? if I bring an army that is 32 models and all 32 of them have this rule can I deploy the full army via Deathwing assault?

Heres what the masses think, theres no clear cut answer


www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/500770.page

[hyv3mynd]

I'd say no. The rule doesn't specify permission to reserve more than half your army. Plus if it did work, DW would be the first army ever to full reserve and fully arrive turn 1 without any reserve rolls at all.

[nutter]

I agree, but heres the grey area, the rule doesnt say you go into reserves you go into Deathwing Assault. This is the rule:

Units entirely composed of models that have both this special rule and terminator armour can choose to make a Deathwing Assault. Immediately after determining warloard traits, tell your opponent which units are making a deathwing assault, and make a secret note of whether it takes place durning your first or second turn. All units makeing the death wing assault automaticaly arrive via deep strike at the start of the chosen turn - there is no need to roll for reserves.

And this is where its get grey because, you decide what your doing with the units that have deathwing assault BEFORE you even get to your deployment step.

This is my Idea

Page 424 of the big book. preparing for battle
1) Chose army
2) Mission
3) Fortifictions
4) Terrian
5) Objectives
6) Warload
7) DA player decides to use/not use Deathwing assault (RAW)
8) Psychic powers
9) Deployment
10) Seize

So, Since your using this rule before you even get to the deployment step there's no army to even deploy and/or set up in reserves

This codex has proven to have been horriablly written based on the amount they've FAQ already, This is just another example.

[sinistermind]

I dont have a rulebook handy right now but isn't there a rule that just states if you have no models on the field you lose?

[pogysnacks]

Theres no grey area, the army doesn't deploy if you deathwing assault them all, Codex rules can/and have in many cases trumped rulebook rules, and unless they specifically denote otherwiseyou can play by how the codex allows you to play it..if there was a serious issue against it than it would be countered in an FAQ..,in discussing this w the 11th co we its not that bad yes it trumps a rule but again Codex>Rulebook

[hyv3mynd]

The models are in fact in reserve as you cannot deep strike unless the unit has been placed in reserve.

Every army and unit that has permission to break the 50% deployment rule has so explicitly stated. Drop pods, flyers, daemons all say they must be placed in reserve every single time you play. Units that must be reserved or begin on transports that must be reserved are exempt.

DWA is a choice therefore they can begin the game on the table if you wish. If you have a choice at any point, then they have no mandate to avoid the 50% rule and nothing in DWA gives explicit verbal permission to avoid deploying 50% of the army required by the rulebook.

Again the precedent is strong. If you think DWA would allow an army to deploy 0 models, with every single unit arriving turn 1 with no waves or reserve rolls, try letting a daemon or full drop pod player bring their entire army on turn 1 and see how it goes.

[chaoscraig]

i dont have my rule-book on me but im pretty sure there is a rule that states if a turn starts or ends with one team having no models on the board they lose

[hyv3mynd]

Game turn not player turn. And DWA allows you to choose for every unit to arrive turn 1. In effect an entire army of fearless scoring terminators all arriving turn 1 with no need to deploy or roll for reserves at least that's what the argument is about.

The contention is that there's no specific allowance the avoid the rule that you must deploy half of your army before the game starts.

[pogysnacks]

Jan 28, 2013 7:46:57 GMT -5 @hyv3mynd said:

The models are in fact in reserve as you cannot deep strike unless the unit has been placed in reserve.

Every army and unit that has permission to break the 50% deployment rule has so explicitly stated. Drop pods, flyers, daemons all say they must be placed in reserve every single time you play. Units that must be reserved or begin on transports that must be reserved are exempt.

DWA is a choice therefore they can begin the game on the table if you wish. If you have a choice at any point, then they have no mandate to avoid the 50% rule and nothing in DWA gives explicit verbal permission to avoid deploying 50% of the army required by the rulebook.

Again the precedent is strong. If you think DWA would allow an army to deploy 0 models, with every single unit arriving turn 1 with no waves or reserve rolls, try letting a daemon or full drop pod player bring their entire army on turn 1 and see how it goes.

ok i agree with you, and i apologize for my delay in responding, military life is hectic at times. Demons and drop pod armies both explicitly state the amount that arrives and when, where demons are slit into waves, and drop pods are divided and rounded up..the issue seen here is the RAW in the Codex are rather contradictory as you can read it and argue both sides of our argument..poorly written and rushed yes, as vetock was subbed in for matt ward late to rewrite and finish many of the rules due to Gw's stated: "Matt Ward's controversial rules writing"..the rule allows you to deathwing assault your entire army first turn, or second, as you can choose the amount of squads..obviously this violates the Core rulebook, but this wouldn't be the first time that specific army codices have something contradicting the game rules, im sure we can sleep on it because i cant see the rule going without an FAQ for too long as we aren't the only individuals discussing the rule..30 terminators arriving via deepstrike is rather intimidating especially with twin-linked weapons, and the ability to split fire, but in the current meta, at least non-comp, they wont survive for long, too many armies can field too much firepower..a scary thing from the DA codex would be hiding cheap tactical units with heavy weapons behind an aegis near a darkshroud..that is kinda scary