McCommander
Sergeant
The Dreamiest
For every one that falls, two shall take his place!
Posts: 209
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Post by McCommander on Jan 14, 2006 9:26:26 GMT -5
Scarabs are very cheap for the all of their abilities. They really don't affect your phase out that badly. Necrons handle being shot just fine, they just stand back up! Where they have problems is in assult. Sacarbs are cheap, very effective, counter assulters that protect your valuable necron troops. In this way they make it much harder for you to get phased out. With scarabs tieing things up in close combat and the Monolith and Veil pulling your necron troops out of combat. You should be able to avoid almost all the assults that you don't wanna be in.
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Jan 14, 2006 22:20:48 GMT -5
there almost like fast nurglings minus the invulnerable and 1 WS and IN
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Post by Ranger Dude on Jan 15, 2006 3:31:09 GMT -5
I understand that that's the case in a normal necron army. I was responding to the idea of a scarab and tomb spyder heavy force. That wouldn't leave much room for normal necrons, leaving you with a small phase out number. Don't get me wrong. I like the idea as a theme. But as my rangers will attest, themes can help or hurt. In all the games my rangers have played, only two have been close. The rest are a slaughter in one direction or another.
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Post by jhobin on Jan 16, 2006 8:50:07 GMT -5
I don think the phase out on a spyder scarab army would be to bad 30 scarabs and 9 tomb spyders are 915 you figure that plus a 210 pts lord brings it up to 1125 and that leaves you with about 40 warriors. Your phase out is 10.25. Not great but not bad. Considering all of the multi-wound critters on the board. 40 warriors is managable enough that you could potentially keep then from getting shot at by hiding them for a couple of turns. I might proxy it and try it soon.
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Post by dragons3 on Jan 16, 2006 9:28:58 GMT -5
THIS IS SILLY, SCARABS HAVE TO STAY WITH THE TOMB SPIDERS WHICH MOVE 6" AND ASSAULT 6", THATS TO SLOW, ITS 2 TURNS + IN THE GAME THAT ARE WASTED. WITH 30 SCARABS, YOUR GOING TO TAKE FIVE WOUNDS WITH NO SAVES GETTING THEM ON THE FIELD. EVERYBODY CAN MOVE AS FAST AS YOU, I THINK THIS POINT LESS. TAKING SCARABS AS FAST ATTACK IS SMARTER. OUT OF ALL THE MONSTROUS CREATURES IN 40K, TOMB SPIDERS ARE THE WORST! CHALLENGE THE DRAGON ON A THURSDAY NIGHT, (BUT NOT THIS WEEK), AND I SHALL PROVE THIS. I'LL EVEN LET YOU CHOOSE WHAT YOU WANT TO PLAY AGAINST.
SPACEMARINES AS BLOOD ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, STANDARD CODEX/ or WITH TRAITS, TYRANIDS, NECRONS or ARMORED COMPANY (BUT I WOULD HAVE TO BARROW 3 TANKS TO PLAY 2000 points). YOUR CALL!
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Post by jhobin on Jan 16, 2006 9:59:35 GMT -5
I was thinking about using 3 squads of 10 scarabs and 9 tomb spyder as there own. The 9 tomb spyder's speed would be restriceted by there scarabs but not the rest.
I would like to play you but I live to far away. Next time Im up that way Ill give it a try. You never know. I've been told by many people that 1ksons cant win anything.
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Jan 16, 2006 10:36:23 GMT -5
Scarabs only move 6 when the spiders crap them out. They also lower majority toughness for shooting.
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Post by jhobin on Jan 16, 2006 10:47:31 GMT -5
The tomb spyder is a montosrous creature and can be fired at anyways.
So you have each one of them poop one out. That way if one dies the "squad" is still alive. If you get into hth you get a bunch of extra str 3 attacks
Now that I think about. don't MC count as independant characters in hth?
(I can only acess the internet at work, I do not have my books on me. Everyone might look at me weird ;D)
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Post by dragons3 on Jan 16, 2006 11:34:28 GMT -5
THE OUT SIDE WORLD ISN'T READY TO ACCEPT 40K FREAKS LIKE US, WE ALL MIGHT AS WELL BE MUTANTS. ;D ;D ;D
BRIANS COMMENTS ARE A BIG FACTOR RELATIVE TO GAME TACTICS. ONE I FORGOT ABOUT, THANKS.
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MajorSoB
Moderator
The oldest
THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
Posts: 2,135
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Post by MajorSoB on Jan 16, 2006 17:30:08 GMT -5
Things to consider....
Tomb spyder- Yes they are slow, but they are tough, strong, and most importantly monsterous creatures, which means they are level 3. A well placed group of tomb spyders blocks line of sight and makes it difficult to shoot the warriors to get to the phase out number. I am not sure on using the spyders to manufacture swarms since they have to be kept with the spyder, which does lower the units stats for purposes of shooting, as well as the risk of taking wounds when making scarabs. The way I see it, using the monstroues creatures to screen as well as deter assaults makes them good.
Scarabs- 3-10 man squads is only 360 pts, 40 pts more per unit if you take the disruption fields. At most that is only 480 points for 90 wounds of models that will affectively lock up units several units in assualt . The big arguement is phase out. Phase out is irrelevant since units in CC cannot shoot. Using the three squads to tie up shooting units as well as screening from the spyder = phase out not being reached.
As for challenges, wish I could take you up on the "thursday challenge" to prove my point, but I work evenings. If you ever find a free weekend, I would be glad to hammer this lesson home.
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Post by dragons3 on Jan 16, 2006 21:22:00 GMT -5
NO PROBLEM DOUG, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOUR SAYING, ALMOST ALL ARMIES HAVE SOME FORM OF TIE-UP, (EXCEPT SPACEMARINES) BUT THEY DON'T PHASE OUT. TOMB SPIDERS WITH 2 WOUNDS AREN'T THAT MONSTROUS, AND I'VE GOT 2 TURNS OF MOVES BEFORE I WOULD EVEN HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM. WHEN YOU TAKE 360 POINTS OF SCARABS, THE SPIDERS AND THE OTHER TOYS THAT LOWER YOUR PHASE OUT NUMBER, THOSE 2 TURNS ARE GOING TO DICTATE THE HOLE GAME. HELL I'D EVEN PLAY NECRONS ON NECRONS WITH THESE ODDS.
THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE, I CHALLENGE EVERYBODY AT BOLDO'S BECAUSE THE PLAYERS ARE SO GOOD. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Jan 17, 2006 16:50:45 GMT -5
Yes, 3 squads of scarabs are 90 wounds, but they are also toughness 3 meaning that assault cannons (and all other S6 weapons and higher) pop bases. Mind that they are also vulnerable to blasts. Against the Iron Warriors of Ron, chances are all 3 of those squads are not going to make the h2h. (lets not even think about those oblliterators... how ever many he wants to take ;D ;D ;D) Some will make it, but they wont be as affective as they would be on other armies with the bassy and vindicator + the flamers and missle launchers he will possibly take!
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MajorSoB
Moderator
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THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
Posts: 2,135
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Post by MajorSoB on Jan 17, 2006 20:31:03 GMT -5
Brian is wrong again...(worse yet on his own army)
If you played these units properly (hide them in back, jet bike them out to get the invulnerable save, then assault next turn) most of them should make it into combat, at least enough to tie up units which should be the whole purpose of scarabs in the first place. No one said that some wont die, but there is no way they all will, and please explain to me how the hell you would ever let a player get flamers on them (except the occasional witch hunter army or a Baal predator)? After all they are fast attack choices and you should be placing them last at setup, away from the flamers would be good! You should be in assault before you let the other player position themselves for templetes, since you can move 2 to 4 times as fast as most basic marines. d**n Brian, my head hurts!!!!!
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Post by evilerik on Jan 17, 2006 22:06:15 GMT -5
please explain to me how the hell you would ever let a player get flamers on them Old Salamanders Predator with heavy flamer side sponsons. Hell Yea
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MajorSoB
Moderator
The oldest
THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
Posts: 2,135
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Post by MajorSoB on Jan 17, 2006 22:34:54 GMT -5
You do realize that every time you contadict me Erik, you are giving Brian another reason to speak, and we all know that he doesn't need any more reasons!!!!
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