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Post by Catachan Colonel on Mar 10, 2006 23:59:37 GMT -5
I gotta back up Ron here.
I have heard a lot of wiggin that necron need more close combat units and all their close combat units suck and blah blah blah.
Hell they dont even take the close combat units they own and then wonder why they have troubles in close combat!!!
Sounds a lot like tau whining that they have no close combat and never taking Kroot.
Parias as i have stated are a deal for a mere 36 pts, any other army would kill to have the unit. And no taking a shooty unit and sticking it where it cant shoot is NOT the answer.
They dont fleet? that is a disadvantage? Not having a rule that noone in your army has and even if they had the rule their armor save 3 would not allow them to use? Gosh does that mean tactical marines suck cause they dont have fleet?
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Post by MallSecurity on Mar 11, 2006 3:07:14 GMT -5
Nope, I'm gonna have to agree that Pariah's are 'All Bad' especially in the face of the cheaper and better Immortals.
They really do just scream 'Shoot me in the face and score my sweet sweet Victory Points'
The only real role I can imagine for them is a counter assault unit. A Role in which they will loose to a significant number of the popular assualt troops (Assults marines/LC Termies, Daemons, Tyranid Warriors, Genestealers and others)
And in a tourny dominated by shooty armies I think this role is spotty at best.
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Post by MallSecurity on Mar 11, 2006 3:45:28 GMT -5
Some Fights (Cause I'm Bored): All Cases involve the unit fighting against 10 Pariahs (360 points)
The Chaplain and his most hallowed Warriors (The Assault Marines) - 356 points
The Chaplain: 5 Attacks -> 4.5 Hits -> 1.5 Killed 6 Assault Marines: 18 Attacks -> 13.5 Hits -> 4.5 wounds -> 1.5 Killed Veteran Sargent with PF: 4 attacks -> 3 Hits -> 2.5 Killed
The Pariahs: 7 attacks -> 3.5 Hits -> 2.3 Killed
(Note it was assumed that the Marines Charged However, it was also assumed that the Marines lost three men to shooting)
Result: Two Marines Dead, 6 Pariahs Dead
13 Bloodletters - 338
10 Pariahs: 10 Swings -> 5 Hits -> 3 Killed
10 Bloodletters: 30 Swings -> 15 Hits -> 7.5 Killed
(It was assumed that the Bloodletters charged but that the Pariahs were in Cover) Results: 3 Bloodletters Dead, 7-8 Pariahs dead
18 Genestealers (with Scything Talons + Scuttlers) - 360 points
12 Genestealers: 36 Attacks -> 24 Hits (6 Rending)-> 6 Wounds -> 8 Killed
2 Pariahs -> 4 Attacks -> 2 Hits -> 1.3 Killed
(Assuming Genestealers lost 6 to shooting and were charged) Result: 8 Pariahs Killed, 1-2 Genestealers Killed
Yeah, they seem like a sweet unit
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Mar 11, 2006 7:36:30 GMT -5
hold up lets look at some other examples that dont include the absolute best assauly troops in the game (some even lead by characters)
pariahs charging
Pariahs 6 Terminators 6
Pariahs charge: parias swing 12 hit 6 wound 4 kill 4 Terminators swing 4 hit 2 wound 1 1/3 kill 1 1/3
Same six pariahs vrs Plague marines (7 of course) Pariahs charge: parias swing 12 hit 6 wound 3 kill 3 4 plague marines 8 swings 4 hits 1.3wounds 0.44 kills
20 kroot inc shaper 42swings 21hits 7 wounds 2.3 kills Simo attacks 6 pariahs 12 swings 6 hits 5wounds 5 kills (not bad when that out numbered)
Vrs 27 Shootaboys 6 parias charge 12 attacks 6 hits 4 wounds 4 kills 23 Shoota boys 23 hits 4.5wounds 1.5 kills Ok Vrs waaghing truk boys 10 orks 40 attacks 20 hits 3.3wounds 1.6kills 4.4 pariahs 8.8 swings 4.4 hits 2.9 wounds 2.9kills
10 flesh hounds 20 swings 10 hits 5wounds 1.6 kills 4.4 Parias 8.8 swings 4.4 hits 2.9 wounds 2.9 kills
Not one time did the Pariahs lose. Against the terminators they Crushed!!
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Mar 11, 2006 8:46:26 GMT -5
Here is the problem, they are inquisitors! They are in 3! All the stuff you just posted are small exceptions. Matt just proved how the common units work
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Post by Ranger Dude on Mar 11, 2006 9:19:54 GMT -5
Your problem brian is that you are going after the wrong things. You don't attack assault units with other assault units unless you have to and have numerical superiority. you shoot assault units. you assault shooty units.
Tommy's examples were just fine.
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Post by dragons3 on Mar 11, 2006 9:27:22 GMT -5
CATACHAN COLONEL, WRONG AGAIN, 6 TERMINATORS HAVE INITIATIVE 4, PARAIH'S HAVE INITIATIVE 3, THERE FOR TERMINATOR POWER WEAPON WILL SWINGS FIRST WITH 2 ATTACKS WHICH I WILL INCLUDE WITH "REGULAR" ATTACKS FROM THE OTHER FIVE. 12 SWINGS FROM THE TERMINATORS, HIT 6 TIMES, WOUNDS 2 AND KILLS 1 OR 2 (1 POWER WEAPON). NOW PARIAH'S GET 10 SWINGS, HIT 5 TIMES AND KILLS 2 WITH A SLANT TOWARDS 3. 6 PARRAIH'S COST 216 points WHICH INCREASE MY PHASE OUT NUMBER BY 8 MODELS (DON'T ASK), CHANGES HOW THIS ARMY IS PLAYED FOR A BUNCH OF SLUGS THAT NEED TO VIALED AROUND,OR USE A MONOLITH TO GIVE THEM SOME TYPE OF USEFUL MOVE @ 235 MORE POINTS, WHICH INCREASES MY PHASE BY ANOTHER 8 MODELS, (VAIL OF DARKNESS IS ALWAYS TAKEN @1850 points). WHEN WOULD YOU EVER GET NEAR TERMINATORS, ALMOST NEVER, I'LL TAKE THE TERMIES, TAKE MY 8 SHOTS WITH 2 ASSAULT CANNONS, 6 STORMBOLTERS AND JUST STAY AWAY, JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER MODELS WOULD IN ALL THE OTHER ARMIES. AND WHILE WERE AT, TAKING A SQUAD OF 6 IS STATISTICALLY BAD, I'LL LET YOU FIGURE OUT, AND IT'S NOT WHAT YOU THINK. THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE, I'VE GOTTA BUILDS TANKS. HAVE A NICE DAY!
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Mar 11, 2006 9:36:03 GMT -5
CATACHAN COLONEL, WRONG AGAIN, 6 TERMINATORS HAVE INITIATIVE 4, PARAIH'S HAVE INITIATIVE 3, Yes terminators who swing twice have initive 4. if they want to swing with no weapon instead of their POWER FISTS or Thunderhammers (thats INITIATIVE 1) so Initive 4 skipping the power fist terminators... 12attack 6 hits 2 wounds .66kills 5.44 Parias swing back thats 10.88 swings 5.44 hits 3.62 wounds 3.62 kills Yup Dragon 0.67 LESS KILLS for to save 0.38 terminators. Those terminators did lots better your way! Yup brian i didnt factor someone being dumb enough to attack full strength hard core and i will admit better assault units. (This discussion s are they good not are they the best. Kroot dont have power weapons and really are not as good assaulters as bloodletters but that does not mean they suck. kroot are quite good, so are pariahs) My advice is that the necrons mayby "SHOOT THEM" Thats why i didnt factor in scar boys or lightning claw terminators cause i thought the necron player seeing those threats may actually shoot those and assault much better targets. BTW the presence of the nearby pariahs makes the shooting better too because the enemy will fall back after being shot at far far more often.
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Post by Goldeagle on Mar 11, 2006 11:20:52 GMT -5
I have seen Courtney use Pariahs quite successfully in his take one of everything Necron list. As Tommy and Ron have argued, the real underlying issue here is tactics, not whether any particular unit "sucks" or doesn't "suck". Every unit in this game has a strength and a weakness. In the case of the Pariah you seem to be fixated on the weakness ... yet brought up the obvious advantage of the counterassault punch that the unit has. How many times has each of seen a Necron player get charged by their opponent? A Pariah squad back-ed up by one of those nasty lords is a nice way to respond to this charge, as opposed to allowing the inevitable slow crumble of your warriors.
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Post by dragons3 on Mar 11, 2006 11:50:05 GMT -5
OK, HAVE IT YOUR, YOU LIKE GO BUY'EM! THEN YOU CAN TRY ALL YOUR WONDERFUL TACTICS. AND THEN WHEN WHEN YOU FIND HOW NECRONS REALLY WORK, YOU CAN SELL THEM UNDER THE TRADE SECTION OF THIS BLOG. OR YOU CAN JUST WIPE YOUR A$$ WITH YOUR CASH AND FLUSH! "I MEAN THAT IN A GOOD WAY" I LIKE THE TARGET IDEA BETTER, SAVES ME MONEY ON GRIDS. MAYBE YOU'LL GET AN AWARD FOR PAINT! THEN SHOOT'EM! HAVE A NICE DAY,I WILL NOT COMMENT AGAIN ON PARAIH'S WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T PLAY NECRONS, LIFES TO SHORT! P.S. COURTNEY'S THE BEST, HE COULD TAKE THE PARAIH SQUAD OF THE BOARD AND STILL KICK YOUR A$$. ;D
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Mar 11, 2006 13:41:13 GMT -5
HAHAHA!!
I have played with Necrons before. Ask Foser I sold most of mine to him.
I've killed Courntey's Necrons before w/wo Pariahs. He's a great player and knows his stuff, you could learn something from him about Pariahs. No one said the unit is "The Best"....like Paul said your fixated on the negatives of the unit. Look to the positives. ie higher str and toughness than a marine, good armor save, high LD. Souless rules, Fearless, and Pscyic Abomination, Warsythe and Guass Blaster. <---More str 5 shots! (were you complaining that you didnt have enough high str shots?)
Your just being a stubborn mule (@ss, if you prefer) and looking one way.
As for the this vs Pariahs thing...sure, lets do them vs grots, how about guardsmen? How about Thrall Wizards? Hmmm Deathcult assasins? Guardsmen Lt with chain sword and bolt pistol? Seems like a good unit to me.
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Post by dragons3 on Mar 11, 2006 16:11:30 GMT -5
MULE A$$, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GET INTO A NAME CALLING ORDEAL WITH ME! YOU DON'T THINK I'VE ENOUGH MATERIAL TO WORK WITH.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE A SHOT, PUT SOME THOUGHT BEHIND IT!
HAVE A NICE DAY! EEEEEEEEEEEEE-AUWWWWWWW
AND GO BUY SOME PARAIH'S, IT'S GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY.
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Mar 11, 2006 16:23:50 GMT -5
Eye for and Eye, big guy. ;D
And besides, you had a choice between what I called you...I said Mule...if you prefered @ss then that was your choice.
The Mule refrence was to you being stubborn, if you didnt get it.
I know sometimes things can be hard to understand when they are typed out in a manner where you can actually read and understand them. ;D
By the way has this been settle yet? (You know like the Title says? ;D ;D ;D )
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Mar 11, 2006 17:01:26 GMT -5
yes by the vote the non commitals have it, but they would have voted "shut up Brian anyway"
between yes and no
it is decided Pariahs are good.
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Mar 11, 2006 17:07:32 GMT -5
Being that this is a democratic country, and this has been democratically voted upon, ALL Necron players must now admit that Pariahs are good.
BTW.... I AM SHOGUN!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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