GW Sales drop

[MajorSoB]

Big suprise here. I guess the marketing geniuses at GW didn't quite figure that without a new LOTR movie sales might slip a bit. I guess not enough $50 boxes of terminators were selling to keep their profits up. Seriously, I don't wish ill on GW, I like their games but I wish they would take their heads out of thier corporate asses and do something right for a change.

www.lse.co.uk/ShareNews.asp?ShareNews=GAW&articleref=Y6J0N0T2B2P2&news_headline=games_worksho

[azmodai]

I can't agree more. I understand the attraction of plastic over metal for conversion purpouses, but it's cheaper to buy metal temmie blisters than a box of plastic. What is this world comming to? GW is the Starbucks of the game world. The stuff is good, but is it really worth the price?

[Iron Warrior]

Well i hope that this doesnt come to a surprise to GW. Thier low stocks are due to low sales, its a direct result. Thier flaw in sales of hiking up prices of plastic models will hurt them economically. They are a large company trying to target a small target audience and they continue to shrink thier target audience by increasing prices.

This means that Mom or Dad wont look twice at that 50 dollar terminator box or the 35-40? dollar Space marine captian. The young or tight budget people will be excluded when you raise prices. Before thier target audience used to be ages 10 to 30 now its more like 17-30.
I just find it absurd that thier thinking of netting low sales and stock dropping means they have to increase prices. Well thats not a solution, infact its the very thing thats bringing them down.

I have been looking into other games and found some that are on par with price for GW about 4 years ago or cheaper (in terms of expenses) and are just as fun if not more fun. See my post in the Specialist games section for Flames of War. Ive been thinking about ancient battles.

The only impact you can make about this is to no longer purchase thier items and play something else. Not saying your should totally abandon your 40k/Fantasy armies. Im just saying perhaps try something else for a change, maybe GW will come around when they see thier stock and sales plummet again.

And trying something new and diffrent from time to time can be fun.

[MajorSoB]

Well said Ron. I think that if they are blaming the shrinking popularity of LOTR for all their woes they are missing the boat. Yes this contibutes to a small degree of the downward sales trend but I think price increases have had more of an impact than anything else. I agree that their are many alternatives in the way of quality gaming systems as well, and that GW needs to wake up to the fact that many of them are better scupted, cheaper, and offer the same kind of excitement that their product does. Reaper, Mongoose, and Confrontation have eaten away at their base of customers I am certain. I think GW's arrogance in that they ignore customer feedback as well as their refusal to continue to support large tournements from a company level is a bad thing. I will probably check out the Flames of War demo saturday since it never hurts to try something new.

[azmodai]

I have, in the past, avoided the high prices of GW by buying used, on e-bay or adds on buliten boards. Little DOT3 dunk, and ready to start a new life. Other games are an alternative, but it's still, OTHER games. I love 40k, even if I get my ass handed (often these days), I enjoy it more than any other game I've tried. CAV is good, Battletech is (was?)good, lost interest after the buyout of FASA. Just wish GW would come around.

[MajorSoB]

I agree Calvin. I do eBay some of my stuff as well but try to buy most new to support my local gaming places. I still prefer 40K to anything else I have tried just like you. As for getting your butt beat, it happens to everyone but stick around you will improve.

[dragons3]

IT'S QUITE SIMPLE, GW CONTROLS THE MARKET, IT STOPS GROWING. THEY RAISE THEIR PRICES TO SHOW AN UP TREND BECAUSE THEY KNOW ADDICTED SUCKERS LIKE US WILL PAY TO PLAY. BUT THE MORE IT COST TO BUILD AN ARMY THE SMALLER THE MARKET SECTOR. HOW MANY PARENTS ARE GOING TO SPEND $400-600 ON MODELS SO THEIR KIDS CAN PLAY WARHAMMER. I CAN MAKE THEM SMILE FOR 1/2 THE PRICE, KNOW WHERE THEY ARE AND HAVE A LARGER VERITY OF GAMES WITH A SONY PLAY STATION. AND FOR US OLDER GENTLEMEN (OVER 21), AFTER YOU BUILD 4 or 5 ARMIES, WHATS LEFT TO BUY. YOU GROW THE GAME AND THE BUSINESS BY LOWERING PRICES. PLASTIC MODELS ON FAMILY TREES, MADE FROM LOW GRADE ABS PLASTIC PACKAGED AND WRAPPED COST ABOUT $1 (LEMAN RUSS TANK SIZE). SO GW SHOULD SELL THIS TANK WITH A LIST PRICE OF 10 TO 20 TIMES MANUFACTURES COST.
SO IF YOU SEE A LEMAN RUSS TANK SELLING FOR MORE THAN $20, THAT MEANS THERE STICKING TO THE STORE OWNERS WHO ARE JUST TRYING MAKE A LIVING, (SOME PRICING FAIRLY OTHERS WHO DON'T).

IT'S A GREAT GAME, BUT HOW MANY TIMES HAVE PEOPLE COME TO US AND SAID: I WISH I COULD PLAY BUT I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.

[Iron Warrior]

IT'S QUITE SIMPLE, GW CONTROLS THE MARKET

Wrong, there are TONS of other minature games out there. its just you CHOOSE not to play them.

IT'S A GREAT GAME, BUT HOW MANY TIMES HAVE PEOPLE COME TO US AND SAID: I WISH I COULD PLAY BUT I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.

Ive known quite a few people who have said it and until recently (new job) I have not bought a whole lot of GW stuff, Ive recycled, re sold and re used old stuff of mine or exploit a friend who has a brother that works for GW *cough*. Prices are too high for someone with rent, faimly, signifcant other, Car, food, and other expenses. Unless you have an excess of money you would not even consider playing a dumb game like this unless you are already hooked.

There is little influx of new players, price a direct cause of it. There is no promoting of the hobby or game, infact its promoting has decresed in the past few years with the elimination of RTT and GT's. I am very dissapointed in GW's desiscion with this. I dont understand how they do not see the sales that they produce in preperation for the event as well as afterwards. Granted while the event is going on not much may be sould but Afterwards and before alot of sales are made. This is where GW makes its sales and with the reduction of these events thier sales will slide even more.

LOTR was a joke, it began half hearted rules which got updated with each movie( rule book) and They had to have known that after the movies were over that the intrest would peter out. If something is not working dont keep investing money into it. Great you made money on this (which in fact I think they broke even on LOTR) but dont keep support it if the numbers dont produce sales.

Raising prices is not the answer to everything. If there is a high demand for a product and there is a low supply, raise the price, if there is low demand and lots of supply lower the price. Simple economics. Now there isnt a huge target audience here only a few gamers hear and there. So its not like we are selling to the whole world where 1 out of 3 people will use this product, your looking at 1 out of maybe 500 people in large cities (of course I dont know exactly what the numbers are. From a college expereicne I had 5000 people at Buffalo state, a Gaming club of 10 people 3 of which played 40k/Fantasy, its a rough estimate.) So the demand isnt very high for the products to begin with.

The attitude of just lay down and take it is absurb to me. Why would you let someone take advantage of you like that? If you dont like it dont buy it? Mind you I complain about the prices too but Ive also tried to get into other games as well....and the are only "Other Games" because you havent given them a chance. If 40k is all you know then you need to expland your horizons! Come kill some Krauts or Limeys!

[dragons3]

WELL PUT,I ONLY HAD A FEW MINUTES TO WRITE. 40K IS ONE OUT OF TEN HOBBIES I HAVE. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN ANY OTHER GAMES AT THIS TIME. I ONLY GOT INTO IT FOR MY SON, WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY RIGHT NOW. I LOVE PLAYING 40K, BUT I CAN WALK WAY FROM PLAY IT ANY TIME.

THESE MODELS ARE GREAT TARGETS FOR A 22 LONG RIFLE WITH A GOOD SCOPE AT 50 YARDS, (I CAN SHOOT 500 ROUNDS FOR ABOUT $8.00).

[Sanguinary]

I will say I believe price to be some of the problem, but not the major problem.

The major problem is their marketing. I went through many years of my life(20) never having heard of Warhammer. The only reason I ever got envolved in warhammer was because I met a friend in college that played. How do people find out about this hobby? It is strictly word of mouth or perhaps tripping over a store that carries it. I have never in my life seen a company that thinks products will sell without having any marketing.

-Do they have ads on the cartoon networks, nickelodeon? Not that I have ever seen.

-Are they trying to penetrate KBToys, Toys-R-Us, big chains(wal-mart, target, etc)? never seen any there either.

And with kids having a major influence over their parents buying decisions(yes I said that correctly) money is not really a problem. Parents will pay for what makes their kids happy. I mean seriously, how much do you think an average parent drops on cards for their kids at millenium. $10-$20 easy.

GW just needs to market their games. Warhammer has great learning tools for kids. it has an art aspect, a strategic thinking aspect, and a great social outlet.

[dragons3]

OLDER KIDS MAYBE SANGIE, GAUSS WEAPONS RIPPING THE FLESH OFF THE ENEMY REALLY ISN'T FOR KIDS!

JUST ONE EXAMPLE! OUT OF TIME, GOTTA GO!

REMEMBER: THERE IS ONLY WAR!

[5thstreet]

I am going to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

As far as the recent price increases are concerned, I will only say this. As everybody knows, the price of oil has increased. Oil is a major input in manufaturing, especially in plastics.

I still think this hobby is relatively cheap. I discovered Warhammer after playing Magic the Gathering for a short time. To be competitive you had to spend hundreds of dollars 2 to 3 times a year, every year. In Warhammer you can buy just one army and play it for years without changes. I also was hooked on video games. $250-$300 for a new system every 4-5 years and $40 each for games. Now that I am completely hooked on 40k, I could really care less about PS3 or Xbox 360. I agree Warhammer is not a "cheap" hobby. But its cheaper than some of the more popular alternatives.


Like some of you, I am also dissapointed with the reduction/elimination of the GT system. I went to the baltimore GT 3 years in a row and was looking forward to a 4th, I had a great time every year. It is a great marketing tool. I would hope that some more "indie" events pop up to replace the GTs.

[Ranger Dude]

Hot topic.

Anyway, thought I would add my two cents.

It was asked about GW expanding into major chains. I will point out that they have recently started selling in Barnes and Noble. It's mostly the crappy stuff. (mini paint sets with purple tyranids?) Thi goes along with the fact that the Black Library is big in Book stores too.Mind you, the stuff was no where near the sci fi section which I found quite amusing.

I do agree witt Ron about not spending on this. I only buy something about once or twice a year. I put my oney into other things. But, a sign that they jack up their prices unnecesarily is how much of a discount they can give to their staff. If I remember correctly, TJ gets a 65% discount. Most companies only give a 35%-40% disxcount to staff. If they cut the discount to the employees and reduced prices accordingly, it would help them quite a bit.

They used to get spots in TV shows. One of the first Highlander episodes has a character walking out of a Games-Workshop store. I think their marketing is abysmal now. It never was good to begin with. They don't even get involved in organizations that promote games. National Games week putson a day of games every year where they supply materials to anybody interested in hosting a "Games Day" for severely reduced prices. Wizkids jumped at this, and they are doing quite well as a company. GW was no where on the list.

I don't know what the answer is. I'm sure I can go on ranting and rehashing other's comments, but who needs to read my dribble.

[evilerik]

Just to go along with the promoting product/pushing LOTR thing, I noticed that some book stores (Borders, B&N) would have a box or two of LOTR things. Now, some one walking by the shelf might say "Oh, kewl look at this" turn the box over "Woh, $30, I don't wanna pay that much." Or perhaps, as some people start GW games with impulse buys, would say "Don't have the cash on me" and never look back. Just to add to the pot.

[MajorSoB]

Here is my take on the whole marketing thing...

I agree that marketing more than any other factor is the cause of the downfall. GW does a horrible job marketing a good product. There only attempts that I see involve the GW store in high traffic malls, and advertising in White Dwarf which is kinda like selling snowballs to Eskimos, since everyone reading it already plays. A few years back GW did do something "outside the box", they marketed LOTR to bookstore. While LOTR was a OK game, the minis caught my eye and started me painting again after a 17 year plus absence. I liked painting so I went to the local gaming store to get supplies. As my interest grew, a few gamers mainly Aufar more manly than me challenged me to start playing and from there my 40K facination has been on. If it wasn't for the box of LOTR minis at Border's I would have never found out and later played 40K. I guess what I am saying in simply that GW needs to grow their market by thinking outside the box, or local gamestore.
Dawn of War is a nice cross marketing tool but there should be some follow up too. Should GW advertise on cartoon network, or better yet Sci-Fi channel, maybe. Should they invent some far more manly than me ass cartoon to sell their products, after all it worked for Pokemon and YuGiOh, didn't it?I guess what I am saying is that driving their prices up and support out of the hobby will only serve to discourage gamers like myself and further decrease profit. Support RTT and GT, Ron is right does GW have any idea how much money I waste making armires for their tourneys. How about Courtney and Shaun, I would hazard a guess that each army brought to a GT is worth well over $600 in models and materials, let alone the price of admission and the stuff we all say we wont but end up buying there to.
On to the price of plastic. 5th Street, I respect your opinion sometimes but here you are dead wrong. The price of oil going up is the GW line for the increase, but riddle me this, how come my 2 liter bottle of Diet Coke is only worth 5 cents in deposit then. There cant be more than 50 cents tops of material in a box of troops, maybe a whopping dollar's worth in a land raider. Want me to prove it? I could go to the Dollar Store and buy six Syracuse drop pods...err, cups and melt them down. Bet its the same amount of plastic!!!! If you believe GW that their plastic and metal costs are the reason for their high prices you are insane. All I am saying is that if they marketed their quality product affectively they wouldn't have to assrape the loyal customers like myself like they do. Still pissed about the $50 box or termies, but that is a whole 'nother rant....

One last thing, GW did sell in ToysRUs there 2nd or 3rd edition of the 40K starter set. When asked why this would not continue or Walamrt was not a possiblility, one of the corporate suits came up with a policy that GW did not want its product in store that did not support the full line of paints, blisters, cases, etc and the policy was dropped. Funny that the intro of 40K starter sets in Barnes and Noble seem to now contradict that decision.