Running Gagg Tournament

[boldo]

I am running a Fantasy tournament at Running Gagg and it will be held on Sunday January 27 starting promptly at 10am and will be 3 rounds at 2500pt. I will use the rules set for the DaBoyz tournament. I hope to see some of you there.

Thanks,
Boldo

[adsvampire]

What exactly are the rules set? Are the comp rules currently listed on your site up to date? You are missing the Steam Tank from the list of bad things.

[boldo]

I have done a bit of testing with the steam tank and I am not sure it is so bad. It should miss just once a game and it is valunable to most magic and shooting. I even find that it is not that great in h-t-h. I am wondering if I am missing something.

Boldo

[adsvampire]

Its mostly the fact that it is a great point denial piece and that some armies have almost no hope of taking it out. You have to destroy it completely to get any points for it, T6, unbreakable, 1+ AS, immune to most spells, etc etc etc. A dragon and greater demon are no more or less difficult to wound ... and you can at least get half points for those.

[boldo]

Interesting arguement. What I see is that it the Greater demons score more pts and are just as hard to score full points. I see your point and it has some validity but I think I would rather change the terror question to be if you have one flier which causes terror can move more than 12" a turn or have more than one terror causes.

Boldo

[boldo]

Also the correct list of rules is on www.boldo.com/miniatures/daboyzgt3.html
I know we also have rules at www.Daboyz.com but it usually takes me a few days to update this one so that one may not be perfectly correct right now. At this moment the discussion we are having about the comp rules is whether to still allow DOW. For Running Gagg I will but this is where we are going and here is the arguements.

The new books do not allow DOW or mention them in the book. There is no allowance for them to be taken as rares. Now Gav said in a forum but not officially that the DOW book would still allow them to be taken. Yet this book is old, they have had a chance to add it to other books as it has now not been included in the Empire, Orc and High Elf books. Further Gav's comments were not official errata and the changes in the HE book allow some really stupid things (an HE army with 4 units of ogres which is the same amount that most people play in an ogre army). I am inclined ot say these new books do not allow DOW and can not take them but that seems unfair though completely legal. What do others think?

Boldo

[johnboo]

boldo said:

if you have one flier which causes terror can move more than 12" a turn or have more than one terror causes.

Um, Dont all terror causing flyers move over 12"? You already ding for this anyway.

Greater daemons can go POOF! and Dragons can break from combat and get run down. Steamtanks dont.

I'm with Adam on this one. And add master rune of challenge while your at it.

[johnboo]

Regarding Dogs of War - Either allow them to everyone, or ban them from everyone. Picking & choosing who can take them just makes it a pain in the a$$ all around. Player X cant take them but player Y can just because his book came out earlier just screams bullsh1ttery.

I really like playing with DoW, personally, because you can really add flavor to an army, but it swings the door open to abuse. Not what you're looking for in a tournament, I imagine.

[x2rock]

But Greater Demons and Dragons still maintain there effectiveness even after taking a couple of wounds. Once the Tank takes a few wounds it becomes very ineffective. I don't rate the Tank very high at all.

Add to the fact that it can't pursue so most of the time a unit will get away from the Tank. It can't overrun, so is fairly easy to trap. And can't flee, which is a huge disadvantage.

Agreed, that a few armies will struggle to completely take it out of the game. But most armies have a way to reliably put 3-4 wounds on it, basically taking it out of the game. The only armies that strugle in my mind are Wood Elves and Brettonians, but even the Bretts can field a trebeuchet.

Adam and I have had this discussion before, my opinion is that the Tank is decidedly weaker in it's current incarnation.


As for DOW, the rules for fielding DOW units are in the DOW list itself, not in the army books any longer. Yes, it does allow the High Elves to do some stupid things, but that is life.

Just my $.02

[adsvampire]

The GW site also includes an official list of what armies can take what DoW units. Its on the web site. All of the new books are on that list ... GW just removed the DoW rare option from the books for simplicities sake.

[boldo]

I have checked the rules on line and they are old. They refer to a book which is no longer current (Chronicles 2004). There is also a listing on the GW England web site which makes Scarsnik's prodder fire one bolt for each goblin unit near by. This is wrong and old too. There is errata for the O&G book and the empire book but neither cover this. The O&G Book lists the giant as a rare which they would not have to do if DOW was okay. I have jsut finished looking for something more official than an old web page and could not find it. Am I missing something?

I agree it must be an everyone or no one and I am unsure what to do. I feel that a very strong case can be made for disallowing it for the three new armies. I also see lots of abuse that should either be punished more in the comp system or jsut plain disallowed, but I am the guy who wants to play the soft fluffy armies and win with them.

Boldo

[boldo]

I guess the problem with the steam tank is where soes it fall in the tough chart. Like a giant, a treeman, greater demon or dragon. Which is toughest.

Boldo

[druchiiannointed]

i put the steam tank on that list from weakest to toughest giant, treeman, steam tank, greater daemon.

i feel like though the greater daemon can be knocked down to half points when reduced by wounds it still hits as hard (i.e no stats decrease) whether it has all or only 1 wound left.

IMHO

regards
druchiiannointed

[x2rock]

Giant - Steam Tank - Treeman - Greater Demon - Dragon

[Norton]

Depends a lot on who is riding the dragon, and which greater deamon...

But otherwise.

Giant, Treeman (w/o annoyance), tank, demon, dragon.

But those last 3 can be interchanged depending on what's on what.