boldo
Moderator
The card carrying
Posts: 646
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Post by boldo on Feb 22, 2006 13:26:07 GMT -5
We need to start discussing a comp system for 40k and I know you guys could care less about fanatasy but we are having a good discussion there and I think we need someone to start by posting a things which you should get comp points for.
Boldo
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Post by shaun on Feb 22, 2006 15:33:52 GMT -5
I already have the comp system pretty much rapped up. Just need to know what the plan is in regards to the "printing phase" deadline. I'll try to write it up here on the board for all to see when time permits.
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 22, 2006 15:43:06 GMT -5
Easy comp scoring:
3+ armor save armies -300 comp 4+ armor save armies +0 5+ armor save armies +500 6+ armor save armies Auto Win!
weeeeeeeeeeeee!
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 22, 2006 16:06:00 GMT -5
Shaun I'd like to see that comp list.
Perhaps we should get a comprehensive comp list posted and then rip it apart to see where the weaknesses are?
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Post by shaun on Feb 22, 2006 20:38:31 GMT -5
Yep, thats what i figured would happen. Just so everyone knows, I do value peoples opinions - but most are somewhat biased as to what is and isn't fair. The 40 k comp sheet is going to be pretty fair as opposed to controling army force org selections. It will also be worth 30 of the 60 points. 15 additional will be by opponents judging and another 15 by Judges opinion on theme. For example - an aliatoic army with only 2 ranger squads and 3 falcons will be severely penalized here.
I don't want to offend anyone but I just want to point out that comp has been argued to death over the years. Its just like politics, Democrats don't view matters the same as Republicans. People will never agree on issues - so my view is to not waste time "debating minimal issues". I have a system started that will reflect "our clubs" view on comp. I hope to have it written up by the weekend for all to see.
However, I don't want to spend a lot of time debating why "its not fair" like what is being done for fantasy.
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 22, 2006 20:50:05 GMT -5
In other words. Comp is done the way it going to be. Dont matter what anyone else thinks but we are free to post though it will fall upon deaf ears. ;D Just say that Shaun, we all know thats what you wanted to say. hehehe ;D
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Sanguinary
Sergeant
WOW, his son looks strangely like Shaun,
Posts: 341
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Post by Sanguinary on Feb 22, 2006 22:22:18 GMT -5
Hmmm Shaun's Comp system... You have Death Company -600.... Whatever is fine with me.
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Post by shaun on Feb 23, 2006 0:07:13 GMT -5
Nope, it will be fair for all armies. In fact you will get bonus points in the theme portion if you take what you should. IE death company, 4 heavy for IW, 4 Fast Attack for night lords etc. If its just in your codex and you should have it, you better have it or else you will lose points.
thats all I have to say on it till I write it up for all to see. Its not going to be set in stone, but it will take a majority opinion to correct it. (notice I said correct and not change, cause if a majority of people feel its wrong then I must be wrong).
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 23, 2006 9:43:37 GMT -5
Nope, it will be fair for all armies. 4 heavy for IW... Is there a downside for IW taking 4 heavies? I'm just saying that certain armies might have innate advantages in any comp system. Oh well. I can't wait to see the full list of rules!
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Post by Goldeagle on Feb 23, 2006 9:58:49 GMT -5
No system is perfect, but who should we trust our group of former GT winners and their long term experience in the game (who furthermore will not be playing) or a bunch of knuckleheads (myself included) with personal agendas who want to make sure that their "list" scores well on comp? Put another way, the "majority" opinion does not make you wrong Shaun, it just reiterates the common view in this country that anything over 50% somehow represents a mandate of the people. Publish your system and let the list making begin.
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Post by dragons3 on Feb 23, 2006 10:15:25 GMT -5
YA BABY! ARMOUR COMPANY ALL THE WAY, LEMAN RUSS TANKS FOR EVERYTHING AND MAYBE A BASILISK OR TWO. "FIRE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13, I GO FIRST, I WIN "EVERY TIME", IF I GO SECOND I WIN "9/10 OF THE TIME". SIGN ME ME UP, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO A FLUFFY & CHEESE PARTY BEFORE, BUT I SURE CAN HERE THE WINES. ;D WHAT EVER YOU DECIDE SHAUN IS FINE WITH ME, I'LL PROBABLY PLAY TYRANIDS SINCE NOT MANY PEOPLE DO, AND I CAN BUILD A COMPETITIVE ARMY LIST THAT WILL FALL WITHIN ANY COMP. LIST PARAMETERS. HOPEFULLY YOU'LL NOT RECEIVE TO MUCH RESISTANCE, STAY POSITIVE.
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 23, 2006 14:32:36 GMT -5
I always liked the simple percentage system. 50% in troops =neutral/positive comp, more or less % in troops = more or less comp.
Other than a "bare minimum" for troops units I think you should be allowed to spend your points however, although something should reinforce vairety to avoid 3 obliterator squads, 3 vindicators, 9 tornadoes, and other such nonsense.
I'm sure whatever Shaun comes up with will be 85% acceptable, if not more.
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Post by shaun on Feb 23, 2006 14:40:15 GMT -5
here is the brief list:
-2 don't have 4 troop selections -2 don't have 5 troop selections -2 don't have 6 troop selection -2 don't have 40% spent on troops -2 don't have your 2 compulsory troop selections at max size -2 (up to 10 points) for each "exact" duplicate selection in the army. For example -2 points if you have 2 6 man with las/pls. Note if one had a plas and the other a flamer, no penalty. -2 if you took a second HQ choice (space wolves suffer this if they took wargear other than bolter/pistol/close combat weapon) -4 if more than 10% taken form the armory page. -2 don't have a selection from each section of the Force Org chart.
Total = 30 points. Another 15 from opponent (voted in private at the head table) and another 15 by judges based on theme, balance and fairness.
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 23, 2006 15:13:27 GMT -5
My opinions of this so far:
I dont quite understand this.
This will be diffacult for: Non deamon chaos legions, Evil sunz or Klanz that have really expensive compulsary troops, Cult armies (unless you allow sacred numbers as max size?) This will not effeact horde or Marine armies: Bugs, Feral Orks, any marines army. Its a cop out for Chaos that uses deamons whom can say that thier 10 bloodletters and 10 deamonettes count as compulsary troops.
This is good.
Whats to stop a person from doing this: 6 man squad, Las/plas Vet sarge, BP, PF, frag gernade 6 " " " " " " ", Auspex 6 " " " " " " " Bionics 6 " " " " " " " Krak Gernade 6 " " " " " " " Frag & Krak gernade 6 " " " ' " " " Frag and Bionics
Thats kinda harsh on the wolves, they have to take it and its a points sink if you just give it BP, CCW. And besides dont some of thier chars come with power weapons already? Wolves army is already small and each character counts for them.
This is Good.
I dont see this a nessasry points deduction. What does this do other than force people to abide by a force org some one made up. Not every army uses every aspect of its armed forces in every battle.
my .02 cents so far. ;D
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 23, 2006 16:36:01 GMT -5
I mostly agree with Iron Warrior... (blasphemy! *begins self-flogging*)
Anyways I sorta bawked at the penalty for not having a choice from each possible force org section, but most armies can adapt to this pretty easily. I don't think it's a huge problem, but some armies have "cop out" units (like a single vyper w/ scatter laser to fill the "fast" category) and other armies do not (sisters esentially only have the flying girls as an effective fast attack choice--they tend to be expensive and not every sisters army uses them). This might be worth considering.
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