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Post by bfosburg on Sept 17, 2012 10:21:46 GMT -5
The boys and I from Erie were wondering if the October tourney was going to be used as the GT primer. I believe in the past the GT missions or similar missions were used for feedback and FAQing. Is this still the case?
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Smitty
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Post by Smitty on Sept 17, 2012 11:53:55 GMT -5
The October Event will not be a primer event since I dont know the full format of the GT this year. I will be running a standard 1850, allies allowed, one fortification, 2.5 hrs rounds, standard book missions. With our typical 9:15 set up and registration followed by 10 am first round start time. I will not be doing painting this event either. There will not be a November event due to the GT. For all of you that qualified for December I will be posting the format in the coming weeks.
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Post by bfosburg on Sept 17, 2012 12:06:54 GMT -5
Thanks Smitty, I will let everyone know and see if I can't convince them to come up anyways. Getting to know opponents prior to the GT should be a good selling point. Not to mention get an idea of the table quality they can expect. I appreciate the quick reply.
Bryan
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Post by fishboy on Sept 17, 2012 12:45:05 GMT -5
Whats the deal with all the events this year being "no painting"?
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Post by hyv3mynd on Sept 17, 2012 14:03:29 GMT -5
Whats the deal with all the events this year being "no painting"? Here's a couple factors. any scoring besides battle points? or continuing the slug fest? With allies, and people trying to tweak lists for new edition I will not be adding painting to scoring until the December tourney. Alright Dean, here is the proposed schedule. I see many examples above that are tournaments designed to support other tournaments or act as qualifiers. I cannot point to one event so far, with the exception of the one run this past weekend, that was run as a "standard" event using the rules that are written for this game. 2011 was run in a very similar fashion as well. This was my point, you can agree or disagree, but understand there is some basis for my opinion. Dean, your tone and the manner in which you present yourself is in no way attacking. What I like best is that you can see another perspective and you can consider that as well. That is all I ask. It benefits Travis and the community as a whole when all perspectives are considered. Can we agree on that? I think I finally figured out what you are looking for in a tournament. Something like "August - 1500 pts". No other enforced rules just the game played at a point value. If so, I agree there hasn't been a straight Rulebook tournament in that time or probably a long time before that. Maybe there should be that every once in awhile. Truthfully, that would make it easier to communicate tournaments to outsiders as well. Just hey 1500 points at millenium and nothing else to explain. Also, Yes I think we agree. -Dean- Didn't you just win Best Apprearance at NOVA Joe? Second largest tournament in the country? Do you really need painting prizes to play locally too?
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Post by fishboy on Sept 17, 2012 18:08:08 GMT -5
Its not about painting prizes as much as painting being scored. At this rate we are just hosting Aard boyz in an area that was introduced to me as anything but Aard Boyz.
I dont play to just smash face but to play the whole hobby aspect. Yeah...I just won best paint at NOVA but when was the last time I won Best paint in my local area? Your telling me I have to travel 8 hours away to play in an event that recognizes there is a hobby aspect to this game?
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Post by hyv3mynd on Sept 17, 2012 18:42:32 GMT -5
Nope. Just saying.
We had a long stretch of comp+painting events and attendance of events started tanking. When asked, the vocal absentees wanted to play RAW. No comp, no painting, no player written missions, etc.
Now, we've been appeasing the RAW crowd and the hobby/comp fans are getting rowdy.
Travis and Smitty have gone out of their way to offer formats that appeal to a wide variety of hobbyists. I'm sure they would appreciate the support of all players at all events instead of just staying home until your favorite format shows up.
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Post by fishboy on Sept 17, 2012 19:16:26 GMT -5
I dont have fun at the Hulk Smash events hence I stay home. Ironically I paint when I have the time as I enjoy that. Too bad I cant show it off locally. As for supporting Travis I think I do a pretty good job of that even if I pick and choose my events of attendance. Just saying. I am not getting Rowdy (I laughed at that from old WWF flashbacks hehe) just disapointed in the direction of the local tourny events.
And dont forget that the "tanking" of events had a lot to do with the end of 5th. Feast of Blades did pretty good considering all aspects were scored.
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sinistermind
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Post by sinistermind on Sept 17, 2012 21:40:11 GMT -5
As far as im concerned painting will not keep me home like it has in the past, i cannot afford to choose events do to a decreased amount of free time.
on another note im not sure ill make it to octobers yet, i have to negotiate the terms of my fiance watching our 8 month old ripper(he crawls/walks n bites n generally wreaks havoc) so i can game for 2 days at the GT ;D
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Sept 18, 2012 2:38:48 GMT -5
You know Joe, you do bring about a valid point. I think its fair but I also think that attending events even when painting is not being scored should also be a viable option for you as well.
Before there are any more words inserted into people's mouths as to what the RAW crowd wants, let me tell you what I requested at the start of 6th edition. I made a simple request of the local TO and Travis to run events that used the new rules as written. I believed then, as I still believe, that we should play by these rules and give them a fair chance on their own before we start inserting house rules and exclusions which warps the tournament environment back to the same place that we had at the end of 5th edition. I also requested that we suspend painting scores for a while to help encourage new players who may be intimidated by the painting requirement, and also in hopes that some of the veteran players will bring new things rather than the same old garbage that we see time after time. For the most part I think it has been successful. We have had better turn outs than we had at the close of 5th edition, and for the most part it has been fun. There have been issues that have crept up but I feel they are being addressed.
Back to your request for painting scores to be added, fair enough, I will bring this up at the next event, but I think it will have more weight if you are there to bring it up as well. I get that you like to go to events and have people make a fuss about your painting, yeah you paint good, but is that the only reason you play? Show up at the next event and play. While you are there I will listen to you whine about the Hulk Smash that you see locally ( hell I might even agree with you too ), and I will also remind you of all the idiot lists that you travelled over 8 hours to play and spend large amounts of cash just to get beat down by in a system that plays 40K by rules that do not appear in the book. I promise to make a big deal about your latest painted model, hell I will even take a picture of you and post it online with the caption "World's Greatest 40K Painter" if that is what you want, and yes I will also support painting scores at some events too. But if you want me to do that show me that you care about the hobby as a whole, playing as well as just painting.
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Post by fishboy on Sept 18, 2012 8:29:13 GMT -5
I appreciate your comments SoB. Painting is a big reason why I play and I have tried to support the hobby events locally to show that.
At this point I dont have $600 to plunk down on an army that I plan to simply gue together to play a few games then collect dust a few months later. That is what this type of tourny scenario encourages and I have no desire to play against a bunch of unpainted models and it is not fun for me to play something unpainted. I used to be that hard core jerk gamer that hulk smashed and after a few years of doing it realized I hated it and those around me did too. I dont want to go back to that but I also dont want to go to an event and get hulk smashed 3 times in a row by unpainted and broken lists. Welcome back to 5th ed.
We used to cycle the events and we dont do that any more. If you want to cater to one crowd thats fine. If that makes you successful then even better. I am just not part of that crowd...I am not trying to complain nor am I trying to sound like a snob.
On a side note maybe if we encouraged painting at the events it would encourage people to paint their armies. I killed myself trying to get my DE done in time for NOVA but with the end goal I was able to get it done. Now my goal is to have my Orks done by...you guessed it NOVA.
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Post by professor on Sept 18, 2012 9:24:54 GMT -5
If the overall game had declined into a set of powered up lists with less than half the models painted - I would agree with the sentiment that it is not fun to show up.
That said, while I know I am not the best painter there - I had all but 8 Pink Horrors and 3 Flamers painted to basecoat status at least and I try to field (as much as possible) only painted models at events. I know others try to do the same - but for me the truth is with work, children and a new house...what I really relish is the chance to play some games and get out of the house.
Do not get me wrong, I push as hard as I can to paint - but I have a handful of half finished painting projects that I wish I could spend evenings on.
When there is a very strong paint component - I am actually more inclined to bring a brutal list because I know I cannot compete in painting, but I might be able to make it up in Battle Points.
I am all for starting to phase painting into the monthly tournaments now though - I think there has been a chance for a few months to experiment and bring some unpainted models or fortifications.
Also, for the record I did not see any lists I would qualify as Hulk Smash at the last event. In my games I played GK, IG, IG with roughly the following:
GK - Mordrak, Ghost Knights, Inquisitor, 10x Terminators, 20x Strikes, Aegis
IG - CCS, 3x Vets, Platoon, Valk, 4x Russes
IG - CCS, Psyker, 2x Vets, Platoon, 3x Russes, 10x Dark Angels, Librarian, Vindicator
Maybe the lists will start to escalate over time - but looking around, they seemed interesting across the board.
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Smitty
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Post by Smitty on Sept 18, 2012 9:47:51 GMT -5
As Aaron has pointed out, I have not been doing painting for several reason. 1) New edition which drastically changed the the playing style of the game, so people need time to buy and paint models to adjust their armies (I personally am not play because of these drastic changes and how much I have to do to my list give me a fighting chance) 2) We have several new people that wouldn't be coming and learning to play if painting was required.
Don't worry Painting will be brought back into the scoring for future events, including December's Invitational event. I understand your like of the hobby aspects and I agree I would rather play a painted army vs a grey army. I've had to adept our system for these changes temporally.
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pogysnacks
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Post by pogysnacks on Sept 18, 2012 11:33:53 GMT -5
unfortuantely as a whole because of how the hobby has expanded, painting requirements are going to be lax, namely due to the large influx of new players, and the fact that a large chunk of the grizzled vets dont wanna play..in this case most stores have adapted to the current gaming landscape. The game is constantly evolving, its not nearly as difficult to get into the tournament scene now as it was years passed where army comp and painting were quite a hassle for newer players. The current scene you guys play in sounds rather awesome for newer players, giving them the experience of tournament play, and allowing them to learn tactics and the rules properly from a number of experienced players..keeping them interested but integrating them into the hobby wholesale, eventually theyll catch on to the painting aspect of the hobby, and some probably never will, but theres no reason to alienate them in a local scene, they aren't monthly GT's so it really isnt that big a deal. Also you cant knock the TO's for trying to expand, new players means new revenue so everyone can continue to use the facilities you do..and believe me you all dont get how nice millenium is in comparison to the normal hole in the wall gamestore, think boldo's but everywhere down here, the hobbit is meh, but d**n i cant get away from the stank ass dirty people LARP-ing in the back... so enjoy your favorite aspects of the hobby but dont complain about the scene, add to it positively or dont add at all, painting isnt the end all be all aspect to every new player..i mean the steamrollers you see up there dont compare to what happens own here..every other game is against like 18 wraiths, retarted ammount of vendettas with dual force orgs or hordes of grey hunters with njal and missiles out the ass
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Post by lordnurgle on Sept 22, 2012 22:44:06 GMT -5
painting has always been a hard thing for me. when I worked at GW it was a time when you couldn't play there with unpainted models. for the most part i try to play totally painted. that is, unless im drunkenly dared into doing an army the night before a tourney(sisters). That being said, I cant really fault someone for not fielding much painted. pet peeve though, at least prime the d**n things. though if you come month after month and theirs almost no noticeable improvement, that should be reflected somehow in score.
painting does take time to judge. It would be cool if there was a pre-register thing where you can get your army judged at a gaming night or something before the tourney and that is the painting score that is registered for the year. Me personally, I usually focus on one army a year and stick with it. That would make it a bit easier on the tourney organizer.
One thing about painting is Its discouraging when no matter how hard you try. you cant win it. I personally would love to see a quiz, and a little prize for that. You could give a theme for the month before the tourney, so people could "bone up": black library, rules, codex fluff, special characters, etc. focus on more parts of the hobby.
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