Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 27, 2006 17:00:46 GMT -5
Heres an intersting thought, while playing Dragons the other night I set up my troops as I always do and he set up his. There seemed to be no particular reason to where he setup his. I was setting mine up to get thier normal fireing lanes and possible get some cross firing going on.
Other than the inital set up I didnt see many tactical placements or moves. But now that I think back to games played in the escalation league and past tournaments or even fun games, I dont Notice much strategy or tactics other than sit back and shoot OR go buck nutty across the table to get into HTH. Although I have seen the Stack to one side done. Im not saying these are nessasarily bad choices, they seem to work and have been working for alot of players.
Im just wondering if there are certain tactics out there that people care to share OTHER than the original placement (which I agree has alot of effect on the inital parts of the game) or Run across the table.
Once I started the Orks I looked in thier codex and tried one of the tactics mention in it. I dont remeber the name of it, think it was Da blitz or something. But it has to do with putting fast things on the sides of the table or stacking the fast stuff to one side while the rest of your stuff goes forward. I found this to work sometimes. You really have to find a weak or vunerable flank to attack with it (when playing orks) because the fast stuff tends to be either really expensive or relatively vunerable. In the case of orks, Truck boyz, Buggies and bikes. Terrain does improve thier survivability a bit. I find this works well with guard and marines (to some extent) I have yet to see it work on tau (havent played them yet) Chaos tends to be ruff because the unpredictability of the deamons summons, and Bugs just tend to run at you and combat is due to happen on turn 1 or 2.
So is there any specific tactics you guys use or is it slog forward and see what happens? ;D
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Hagbard The Mighty
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The cheesiest
In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Jan 27, 2006 19:01:33 GMT -5
Beleive it or not, I try to implement tactics when devising my army and placing the units on the board. Generally, I have units tat are suppose to be working togetehr to a certain extent (one runs ups and get in hth - the other counter assualts). I don;t just take things becuase they are cool - they are usually what I think I need to accomplish a specific task.
When setting up, I try to figure out where my opponent is going to put his dangerous stuff and plan accordingly. I know I am still being kind of vague, but I do usually have a game plan in mind and try to execute it to the best of may ability based on the object, terrain and what my opponent is dropping on the table.
For example, my wraithlord almost almost works alone primarily due to the big A$$ target on him. So he is usually off trying to get an objective or go tie up a unit on his own (yes, the cheese stands alone) while draws fire away form other areas of the board.
I don't bring starcannons often, so my long range stuff usually works together to do damage to one unit at a time rather then spreading the fire across different units. This is all pretty normal.
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Post by Ranger Dude on Jan 27, 2006 20:18:19 GMT -5
Since my maines are Jump troop heavy, I often try for fake outs. I deploy fairly spread out and standard, but in the first turn or two, everything does the hockey shuffle to one side or the other, pulling local numerical superiority.
Perhaps the funniest fight I had was playing against white scars where we both pulled this tactic. The battle ended up looking like a toilet bowl with everything slowly swirling towards the center.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 27, 2006 21:59:21 GMT -5
Looks like Gabe and I use similar tactics with fast attack choices in diffrent ways. (when Im using my orks) I use them to overwhelm a flank while you use them to support weak points in your lines.
Dave, gives supporting fire to units before an assualt, a case which my IW's use frequently. A tactic commonly called cover fire.
Another question:
Do you find yourself formualating a plan before the game based on your opponent or do you use the same tactic for all armies...
And, if your plan seems to faulter do you stick with it and make the plan work or switch it up as soon as something goes wrong.
Me, I think I formulate plans for each individual army and person I play. Based on where the terrain is placed, the opponent deploys and the space his troops can cover I begin to think of ways I could exploit the weak points if any.
If something goes wrong which it often does I imediatly attempt to adapt to the situation, try and pull reinforcments into HTH if I have any OR back up away from the combat if I know im going to lose if I charge in and hope he frees himself on the end of his turn so next turn I can blast him.
What about you guys?
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Post by Ranger Dude on Jan 28, 2006 8:10:24 GMT -5
Like most things in life, it all depends. In other words, yes. I do adapt to my oponent. How his army deploys makes a big difference, as well as what happens in the game. Bu tit also depends on what army I'm playing. My Ranger have little variation in plan. Their choices are kind of limited. But htne again, I play them for the theme. My marines will often change things mid-stride. That's a nice thing about jump troops. Still learning with my guard. Biggest thing I learned last game is to remember to shoot with everything. Forgot a vet squad and watched them get pasted the second turn.
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McCommander
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Post by McCommander on Jan 28, 2006 9:54:55 GMT -5
Target Priority is probably one of the things that I look for the most. Most armies have some sort of lynch pin unit or model that the rest of the army is centered around. The "true bite "of the army your facing. This is probably the the first thing I consider and ask myself, "How I'm going to deal with this unit, shoot it?, assault it?, or just kinda tie it up?" Most armies will crumble slowly after this unit is wiped out, or at least become easier to manage.
Well balanced armies are a lil trickier for target priority, you have to look at your opponents army and see what's giving you the most problems right now and what will be later. For the first two rounds it might be a pesky Dev. squad. Later on, in rounds 3 and 4, it could be the death company. You have to decide what is the most important thing to eliminate.
As a side note, on many occasions I've seen novice players identify what their target priority should be. See the danger, but then only half commit themselves. If you look across the board at your opponents army and see a problematic unit that Really needs to go! .... Don't just shoot it a bit and make it smaller, if your going to take care of a problem, commit yourself and destroy it. If unit X really needs to die, there is nothing wrong with firing your entire army at one unit to destroy it if it's really that important to the over all strategy of the battle!
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 28, 2006 20:54:46 GMT -5
The target priority seems to be tied in with the stand back and shoot army lists, which is fine in terms of a tactic to use. I use it often with my IW. I think this tactic is the most often used next to the sprint across the table and hope you get there, that some ork and bug players use.
I dont know if I would tend to agree that concetrating all firepower on one squad and make it go away is a nesscity in the Target Priority tactic. If there is a unit that is just wrecking you or you just cannot deal with it, then yes I would recommend concintrating firepower. But sometimes you dont want to waste 2000 points of fire power on a land raider if it could yield just as much damage else where. Throwing the fire power at preds and rhinos or other lightly armoed vehicles could save you the frustration of having to deal with the, later. Granted this may mean that land raider gets to you but you should have something to deal with what ever it contains nearby.
Having a great offense doesnt nessasarily mean your going to win. Although it works, I often see a Good defense work very well. The whole "Counter Attack" army theme. Wait till they get to you, then plaster them. I like this tactic as well. Though viable it has its week points. You tend to wait back in your own dployment zone which means in missions where you need to grab objectives you aret moving to the objective too fast.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 29, 2006 5:55:06 GMT -5
The tactic I use most is the sacrificial unit tactic.
When I know the demon bomb or something else nasty like that is coming... I try to make sure that I try to make sure it can only take out 1 unit before my counterattack.
Stopping it before this tactic is necessary is preferred, but not always possible.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 1, 2006 19:30:30 GMT -5
The Sacrifical lamb, or The Bait tactic works well for tau and other shooty armies. I sometimes use this in my IW army. I dont really use it in my orks as I want to be in HTH over shooting. This tactic also works well with a strong counter attack into HTH with some assualt troops.
Once you have them in HTH you can manuver your troops in to get the prime spots to assualt, Like putting that power fist on a character with several troops arounf it to soak up wounds. Or just to chew through what evers there.
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Post by dragons3 on Feb 1, 2006 22:39:07 GMT -5
IRON ONE, I ALL READY ANTICIPATED HOW YOUR SET UP WOULD BE, I SET MY TYRANIDS UP SO ALL MY UNITS WOULD ATTACK or COVER EACH OTHER. 2 DIFFERENCES: 1) I WAS BAITING YOU IN WITH MY ENTIRE SWARM, BUT YOU WISELY SHOT THE RIGHT BUGS IN THE RIGHT ORDER. I NEED TO SET-UP JUST A BIT WIDER TO HOLD DOWN LOSES, I WAS AN HURRY TO PLAY. LOSES DID NOT EFFECT MY BATTLE PLAN.
WHEN YOUR FAST ATTACK SQUAD & TACTICAL SQUAD BROKE OFF, IT CHANGED THE FACE OF THE BATTLE. YES, LEAVING MY BUGS EXPOSED BUT ROBBING YOU OF MY NEXT TACTIC.
KEVIN EXPERIENCE A NECRON ASSAULT SWARM LAST SUNDAY, WHICH HE CAN DESCRIBE. "IT'S A DRAGON THING"
2) I TRY TO TAKE TRAITS FROM OTHER ARMIES AND BLEND THEM IN A NOT SO OBVIOUS WAY. DEPEND ON MY OPPONENTS SET UP, HE MAY SEE A TYRANID ARMY TILL I SHOOT THE CRAP OUT OF HIM AS IF A HAD A LARGE BAND OF TAU FIRE WARRIORS,THATS THE IDEA.
3) PEOPLE TEND TO REVEAL LOT MORE THAN THEY THINK, FOR EXAMPLE:
THE "MIGHT BLOOD THIRST" MAIN TACTIC IS TO CONTROL THE MIDDLE OF THE BOARD AND PUSH OUT WARD.
C-COURTNEY LIKES TO USE SHOCK AND AWE AND GET IN YOUR FACE RIGHT AWAY.
MOST PLAYERS ARE NOT WILLING TO TAKE CASUALTIES TO GAIN BOARD POSITION IN THERE TACTICS AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. NOW MY AGGRESSION CHANGES & I RE-SCOPE THE BOARD, CHANGING MY STYLE OF PLAY BASED ON HOW MANY TURNS ARE LEFT.
RON, YOU STILL PLAYED AND SET UP LIKE MARINES THE SAME WAY I WOULD HAVE. IT'S THOSE ORKS THAT WILL REVEAL THAT TRUE MILITARY BRAIN OF YOURS.
BIG ARMY, MOVING AT ALL DIFFERENT SPEEDS, LARGE VARIETY OF WEAPONS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHAT A RUSH!
I WROTE THIS AS MORE OF AN OBSERVATION FORM THAN TACTICS, TACTICS TO ME IS MORE LIKE THIS: 3 VINDICATORS DRIVE DOWN THE CENTER OF THE BOARD WITH 5 TERMINATORS BEHIND EACH TANK AND 3 TORNADO'S ATTACKING FROM ONE SIDE.
BEFORE YOU ASK, "YES I HAVE PLAYED 3 VINDICATORS"
SPACEMARINES TOMORROW, SEE YA!
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 20, 2006 11:07:54 GMT -5
Dragon I mean no offense but can you please stop typing in all caps. As hard as I try I end up screaming the words in my head and it's quite uncomfortable! Hmmm...about tactics you say? Well, a LOT of my Eldar army revolves around deployment. My Falcons often get caught with their pants down 'cause they have to be placed first and it's easy to place a 6 man tac squad with ML or Plas/Las off to one side and poke it first turn... terrain just isn't always sufficient. Skimmer-heavy Eldar are really first-turn dependent! I also run a small specialized force so one bad(good) roll can cripple the battle plan...what am I supposed to do when my Falcon loaded with mini-seer council gets shot down? Its an unfortunate day when that happens... But enough complaining. I really like using Dark Reapers because it tends to make the opponent over-compensate to remove the unit. When Chris Courtney was still learning his drop-pod marine army he made this mistake and the rest of my force closed on him like a bear-trap. Warp Spiders are a great bait unit to use for Demons and other unpredicatble/fast movers. They have withdraw and with fortune can put up with being in a vulnerable position. Doesn't always work but when it does... Of course keeping your units close together (in some circumstances) and overlapping fire lanes especially is key in 4th edition. There's nothing I hate more than seeing a big block of marines just waiting to shoot whatever moves--it's like trying to attack a brick wall with a garden hose (for the Eldar anyway).
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Feb 20, 2006 12:09:24 GMT -5
He has horrible eyes, he does it so he can read it.
Quoted from the thursday night chalenge.
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 20, 2006 12:11:40 GMT -5
oh I had no idea.
Wonder if he's tried the "one eye closed" approach? That works pretty well for alcohol-induced double-vision anyways...
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Post by colonelellios on Feb 22, 2006 12:20:48 GMT -5
Hey I heard my other buddy from Webster showed up and played in a 4v4 humans vs. xenos battle at Boldo's not too long ago. His name is Nate and he owns a pretty standard IG force--Leman Russ Battletank, Demolisher, two squads of storm troopers and LOTS of bodies...
He said he had a good time. I hope you guys can help him learn the system better and improve his generalship. He's still a big-time greenhorn and doesn't have the experience with the game that most of the Boldo's regulars do. I know you guys are nice enough that you'll accomodate him when he shows!
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Feb 22, 2006 14:49:28 GMT -5
Please stay on topic. Army selection is not an "actual" tatic, Granted it may lead to choosing squads that perform better in HTH or shooting but without tactics these choices are useless. Im sure if your friend ever shows up he will be well taken care of.
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