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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Apr 10, 2007 11:34:06 GMT -5
Monoliths are easy targets and most smart people will ignore them and try to phase you out, keep their distance, or blow it up with a couple of shots. Waste of 235 points. Also they can only teleport units within 18 inches, not that much and most of your army has to sit around the monolith. Easy to avoid with my mobile army. Monoliths can take out the tanks and high toughness huys with the whip, and let you reroll WBB saves, so they can shoot away at my necrons, but i get more WBB saves, and with multiple monoliths, its a killer
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joe
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Post by joe on Apr 10, 2007 13:27:26 GMT -5
;D All necrons can take out tanks you said so why waste a 235 point model when a 18 point model can do . Also you can't fire the whip and teleport for extra WBB saves. Also most people who face necron's dont focus on one group, if you knock down a whole group, they HAVE to join the closest unit. So you still get the victory points for that whole unit that got originally knocked down. So while the monolith is the "jack of all trades", it can only do that one thing, not both, making other units more viable for their strengths, also you save 235 points that can be used for other necron types.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Apr 10, 2007 13:35:57 GMT -5
This hasn't been said in a while, but I think it's deserved again...
SHUT UP BRIAN.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Apr 10, 2007 16:08:08 GMT -5
Joe, I am not sure who you are or where you play, but you my friend are sadly mistaken about the monolith. Two monoliths in a necron army are d**n annoying and make the troops nearly unbeatable since they:
1) Shoot like crazy. Both weapons can deal out alot of marine killing goodness. 2) They are composed of living metal with negates most every special ability tank killing weapons have. 3) They are used to affectively suck troops out of close combat. 4) They allow an addition "We'll be back" roll for squads sucked through them.
You can think what you like about them being 235 points wasted but I guarantee if you play any quality opponent who know how to use them they will more than pay for themselves in models kiled and necrons saved.
Back to you Skyth. Yep Jervis Johnson stated that the newest necron codex details the monolith correctly, meaning you cannot move the monolith, transport tropps through it and then assault with those troops that turn since it does count as moving now. You act suprised that GW has contadicted itself and left an old FAQ up. This is just business an usual for GW!
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Post by skyth on Apr 10, 2007 18:03:19 GMT -5
Back to you Skyth. Yep Jervis Johnson stated that the newest necron codex details the monolith correctly, meaning you cannot move the monolith, transport tropps through it and then assault with those troops that turn since it does count as moving now. You act suprised that GW has contadicted itself and left an old FAQ up. This is just business an usual for GW! The only problem with 'Jervis said xxxx' is that no where is that posted officially. While I have confidence in your veracity that you heard that, the only thing that is officially posted is the FAQ. How is 'joe gamer' supposed to know that there was actually a stealth reprint of the Necron (Or any other codex) that contradicts the FAQ that is posted for everyone to see and that said stealth reprint is the current rules? Especially when the only date on the 2nd printing that I can find is 2002, and the FAQ is dated 2004? And why does 'Jervis said it's supposed to be played like this' hold water with you when the FAQ from Pete Haines from the GW Forums is rejected wholesale? I will say that nothing is more annoying that going to a tournament and finding out in the middle of a game that they are using a different rules-set there. I wish GW would get it's act together as far as having up-to-date comprehensive FAQ's to prevent stuff like this from happening.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Apr 10, 2007 18:16:19 GMT -5
I admit that GW and there rules are confusing, and that you have a legitimate reason to think that the "current" FAQ it legal. I would have agreed to you up until last week when Jervis overruled the FAQ at Adepticon. What makes him the authority you ask? Well he is in charge of product and game development, has the final say so on codexs and rules, so I would think he might be the on eto say "yeah" or "nay" to something. He did promise that GW will clean up the FAQ's and make things simpler, but knowing this ruling took place, I would tend to play by his rules. Give GW a few years, since they promised a timely response, I am sure this will all be addressed.
BTW what is this GW forum you speak of??? The Webcomic was discontinued months ago!
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Post by skyth on Apr 10, 2007 18:29:46 GMT -5
BTW what is this GW forum you speak of??? The Webcomic was discontinued months ago! I meant those, before the forums got canned, there was a stickied 'answers from Pete Haines' (Which got saved at Age of Strife) about rules and such. As he was a designer at the time, they should hold as much weight as any statement Jervis made. Especially since they were stickied in the official GW forums.
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Post by dragons3 on Apr 10, 2007 19:16:43 GMT -5
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Apr 10, 2007 20:13:16 GMT -5
Youre question Dragon, Can be answered simply with the number of troop choices a Necron player has to pick from. One.
Necrons are not a cheesy list (though there are ways to make it so, as with ANY list)
The lack of variety on the codexes part (or that of the player) makes the list boring in essence.
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joe
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Post by joe on Apr 11, 2007 2:49:38 GMT -5
Youre question Dragon, Can be answered simply with the number of troop choices a Necron player has to pick from. One. Necrons are not a cheesy list (though there are ways to make it so, as with ANY list) The lack of variety on the codexes part (or that of the player) makes the list boring in essence. Nailed that right on the spot, lack of units and guns really make the necron army... boring lol. We get no cool upgrades to our guys, its "what you see is what you get". We have 9 weapons, 2 are the lords and the other 2 are for the monolith. Look at any other army list, there weapon list its about expansive in length as its units. Some new Ctan's would be cool. Anywho, isn't the particle whip on the necron monolith only 24 inches? I guess until i play another necron player who uses monoliths (god would i love that), i'll never appreciate the monolith. While living metal is all great and stuff, anything strength 8 or more can still take it out on that lucky roll. That is unless its a broadside then its just chop suey. ;D ;D Major SoB: If you go to the Chicago GT, i might meet you there if i see jay or shaun. I played jay last year and he and shaun were great guys to talk to. It's the only time of the year i get to play "Challenging people" in 40k since their aren't that many in jersey, and most are fantasy players around here.
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Post by ccourtney on Apr 11, 2007 8:41:10 GMT -5
You guys all kill me...Necrons are not that boring until u start making the kind of armies you are all talking about. 2 Monoliths, 15 Destroyers.....whatever. Get some d**n variety in your armies and maybe you wont get so bored!.
In 2000 points you can take everything in the codex (yea good or bad....learn to play the "not so good" stuff and maybe you will have more fun!)
1 Lord (200 points armed with what u want) 10 Warriors 10 Warriors 10 Warriors 8 Flayed ones 6 Immortals 4 Pariahs 4 Destroyers 10 Scarabs 1 Tomb Spyder 1 Heavy Destroyer 1 Monolith
You have a fun balance here that you will most likely enjoy playing (even if you loose to some of these all warrior / Destroyer / Monolith armies...) The Pariah / Flayed one combo works great for counter assault, backed up by the tomb spyder and lord. The scarabs and wraiths (and maybe fast lord) will allow you to bring the fight to them. The rest of the army is multitasking enough to take on whatever you need.
How about trying something new like a lord with Lightning Field, Gaze of flame, Res orb and Warsythe attached to a 20 man warrior squad....watch those gaunts die when they assault you.... oh I forgot all the nid players need to read this post also and learn there is more in that codex than the carnifex page!.....you guys are killing me......
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Post by dragons3 on Apr 11, 2007 10:23:51 GMT -5
CHRIS, DRAGON AGREES, I PLAY NECRONS ALL THE TIME. I JUST DON'T LIKE PARIAH'S or MONOLITH'S, (PERSONAL PREFERENCE).
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THEY HAVE IS THAT AP2 or STRENGTH 9 or 10 WEAPONS ARE ALL IN THE HEAVY CATEGORY. SO YOUR OPPONENT CAN PLAY AROUND THEM, EXCLUDING A MONOLITH DEEP STRIKE.
I HAVE 8,000 points in MARINES, AND I LIKE PLAYING NECRONS MORE! CIAO!
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Apr 11, 2007 15:49:32 GMT -5
ehem repost:
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Apr 11, 2007 17:42:12 GMT -5
I think this whole thread got started because someone was trying to inprove thier list. I agree Necrons can be boring when you see the same thing wave after wave, and they also can be fun when you take a variety of the choices in the book. I don't think there are any outright bad choices in the book except for Pariahs. I do think that a varied list is good but never seems to be great. The way to make the lists hard is with plenty of destroyers or multiple monoliths, but then you are back to boring.
You know Joe a thought occurred to me, people usually hate playing things that are over powered and undercosted. Maybe that would be a great way to judge "if you think it's good". Example-3 falcons, people hate it, its good ( almost too good) 2 Monoliths, up for debate but many people hate playing it as well 3 Squads of Genestealers, you get the idea....
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Post by colonelellios on Apr 13, 2007 15:30:36 GMT -5
Heavy destroyers are awesome, but you have to invest heavily in them. They can also still be easy for an opponent to pick off with long range fire.
In a list like I think you run yours (guessing I've never seen it) most of your impressions I'd say are correct. Without a monolith you can't jump out of assault as frequently (but any infantry necron army shouldn't be without a veil), so some tomb spyders would be a good choice, also to take heat off of your destroyers. It sounds like your army could really benefit from the inclusion of a C'Tan, and I think you should seriously consider the deceiver if you want to be more competitive. You'll get docked points, but so does every powerful list.
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