Army Comp

[johnboo]

I must not be using the same comp list that Boldo is for the ogres.

[MajorSoB]

Hey Jason, you can address the forum as a whole here, not just me. I am sorry I have bruised your fragile ego by not falling in lockstep and telling you that you created the greatest comp system on the planet. If that is what has invited your directed and condescending posts, again I apologize for not being a fan boy. Oh well...

My whole point is that I want a system where I have freedom to play more than one or two "compy" builds like John has suggested. It isn't like my army doesnt have troops, I generally bring 2 blocks of 25 skeletons as well as a block of 20-25 tomb guard, and if my math is right that is 70-75 models. Yes I could bring another two blocks of archers and play the unbreakable army you have descibed. My question however is why. Do I have to stick to builds that you like and haven't seen to score well in comp?Apparently. And another thing that you brought up, it seems that everyone whine about Tomb King Chariots. I own them but seldom play them, and no, I have never fielded 15 either, but if I did what would be the problem with that? They are LIGHT chariots that indeed hit hard on the charge but waste away afterwards. They are much more fragile than regular chariots and don't even compare. If this build was so abusive, why isn't it seem at the GW GT's, the grand daddy of the no comp abusive build tourneaments?

I do like the idea of army specific comp and I also toyed with it in the 40K tournament, however it is a huge undertaking. Judge based comp does have its flaws I agree and while it does have some ambiguity, it might be good to use on occassion as well. Bias exists in both hard or soft comp systems, and that alone is not reason to disregard either system.

[johnboo]

majorsob said:

And another thing that you brought up, it seems that everyone whine about Tomb King Chariots. I own them but seldom play them, and no, I have never fielded 15 either, but if I did what would be the problem with that? They are LIGHT chariots that indeed hit hard on the charge but waste away afterwards. They are much more fragile than regular chariots and don't even compare. If this build was so abusive, why isn't it seem at the GW GT's, the grand daddy of the no comp abusive build tourneaments?

Well, to be fair, I was the one who mentioned chariots, and to be more specific meant CORE chariots of chaos & beastmen, who currently can take unlimited amount. Not the wussy, pseudo-cavalry lt chariots TK get. Not sure who was whining about TK chariots.

But dont kid yourself - There's a reason TK are a strong tournament army, Doug. Easy, 100% reliable, unstoppable HUGE magic phases.

[adsvampire]

Adam,

We have talked a lot about judged comp but I think I would be harser than the checklist and this would lead to more complaining. I guess the real problem is I often see the checklist or Jason's as too generous. Now I have been to a number of tournament's with judged comp and it is okay but I feel it fails to reign in armies, and to make the players happy. Now I guess if I get the same set of players at this tournament perhaps I will go with something else but I am not sure this will work any better.

Boldo

Hey, as long as the judged comp is somewhat consistent then who cares? My beef with paper comp is that unless it is army specific there will always certain armies that appear to benefit more than others. Whether that is the case is pure conjecture ... just like the concept of comp itself.

Anyway, why is comp worth only 25 pts this year? Last year it was meaningful at 50 pts. This year its a bunch of people female doging over peanuts that in the grand scheme of things will probably be meaningless. A 13 comp army should be a lot tougher than a 20 comp army. Those 7 points in difference are less than a win ... which the 13 comp army should get more of. So I see little incentive to bring a compy army if it's worth so little. That being said the army I intend to bring scores a 21 ... just because I can ... I didn't feel the monstrosity of a HE army I have would be painted in time ... and I would like a decent paint score this time .

[jason]

Dear Doug,

I am not trying to be condescending to you; I am merely responding to your questions and points. You call your self major son of a female dog which implies you are looking for discord and argument so I am playing along with you. You could sign things Doug which would imply you wished a discussion. You write using aggressive language and then claim the response is condescending? That is inconsistent. I don't need sycophants.

PS I stand corrected, yet I do stand by the aggressive language statement.

PPS. Judged comp is great we need a rubric.
Jason

[Iron Warrior]

SoB is short for Sisters of Battle, a 40k army he plays. That was a lame excuse jason.

[Ranger Dude]

Major SoB happens to be a (S)isters (o)f (B)attle player in 40k. Now I'm betting he chose the name for the double meaning, but just because he chose it as his handle does not mean he is looking for a fight all the time.

[Garou24]

I don't need sycophants.

sycophants: Noun, fawning or flatter, a servile or obsequious person who flatters somebody powerful for personal gain

Doug (AKA Sistas of Battlez) is trying to curry favor from you?

[boldo]

Adam,

Yeah I chickened out. All the fighting over comp got to me so I reduced the percentage for the tournament. People kept saying perhaps I will get more people if I eliminate comp. Well I won't do that so I reduced it. I regret it but as I have said it is too late to change things.

Boldo

[johnboo]

ironwarrior said:

SoB is short for Sisters of Battle, a 40k army he plays. That was a lame excuse jason.

To be honest, Jason isnt the only one to interpret Doug's screen name that way. If I were a betting man I'd say he picked it for its double meaning, giving Doug the benefit of the doubt that he's just that clever...

Anywhoo, I havent seen Doug's evil TK list posted here to see why it comps so craptastically. I'd be willing to bet it has 10+ magic items, min units without command, 4 upgraded mages, etc....the same stuff that will take hits in any system. Doing that in *any* army get a bad comp score (usually). But just because it's TK over the top magic shouldnt count?

Jason did offer a good (actually @ss-kicking - I know, I've been on the receiving end of it) list that scores very well as an example, and Doug just poo-poo's it and basically says well that list is crappy and isnt what I want to play and what I want to play doesnt comp well <shrug>. Not for nothing, thats usually the pattern I've seen with your comp discussions over the years Doug, even in the 40k ones I read once in a while. Comp's fine til we get to the army I play.

Play what ya want - thats the beauty of warhammer, kids.

[Iron Warrior]

That seems a bit childish to me. So its ok to be condesending to Doug because you assume he is looking for conflict based on an abbreiviation of his name?

Ok...Id ont want to steer this of track...but come on.

[Garou24]

My Dad used to tell me "Don't judge a book by its cover"

My screen name is french. Are they going frog bash me now too?

[johnboo]

Cant we all just get along!

Come on, going back over the posts, both are giving as well as getting. I'm sure we can all just drop the "i'm condencending because he's condencending because he's condencending first!" BS.

And you, Mr Garou24! I thumb my nose at you! ;D (Relax....Buyea's french too, you silly kaaanigget!)

[Garou24]

[MajorSoB]

Group hug guys!

Seriously I am often argumentative here not to be a jerk but to stimulate conversation and add the other perspective as well. Sometimes it is for affect, but often I believe what I write. In this case I do believe that local comp matrix tend to favor armies other than mine.

Here is what I often play...

1 TK-DoE or Crook and Flail, collar
1 LP-Heirohant, Cloak of Dunes
1 LP Steed (Dispel scroll)
1 LP (Dispel scroll)

25 Skeletons (Full command)
25 Skeletons (Full command)
2-4 Swarms

20-25 Tomb Guard (Full command, Icon of Rakeph)
3-4 Ushabti
1 Scorpion

SSC w/SoF
Bone Giant

Last tourney I substituted 7 Carrion in my specials.

This usually that basic units I play in some sort of combination. I am aware that I could drop several specials like Ushabti, Carrion or the Scorpion and play more skellys. I like playing the constructs because I like the way the models look. In all honesty the Giant sucks, Ushabti are hit and miss, and Carrion are just plain horrid. The catapult is good but often is outshot by cannons and bolt throwers who don't suffer the same sort of penalties comp wise. Notice I havent included chariots that don't work unless you whoore them out and light or heavy cav isn't even worth a mention. I am open to suggestions. The reasoning behind the 3 LP's is for movement and some dispel dice. My magic is good I understand but no where's near as abusive as many other armies. Most of mine involves movement and healing, and I don't get why that is so penalized, after all TK do not march right, so to move anything like other players do I rely on spells. Thoughts, comments, suggestions?