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Post by jason on Jan 18, 2008 6:06:55 GMT -5
Believe it or not I am actually writing on this board. My first time ever.
How about a bank for comp.
Say you get 15 points, then items have cost. Every thing stacks so a Dogs of War giant is 4 points, Malekith is 8 points (lord, level 4, 3 magic items, mounted, terror, special character), 10 witch elves without command 3 points, but a 20 woman witch elf with command is 1. It is by unit not slot so two eagles are 4 points.
Lord 1 Point Upgrade wizard level 1to 2, or 3to4 1 Point magic items 1 Point each Mounted characters (not horse) 1 Point terror mount 1 point special character 1 point core, special, rare < 1.5 size (if possible) 1 point not having full command (if possible) 1 point special unit 1 point rare unit 2 points dogs of war 1 point core that can't be bigger like chariots 1 point war machine 1 point non ridden terror causer 1 point
Any left over points are added to final score as a bonus.
Jason
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Post by johnboo on Jan 18, 2008 7:21:29 GMT -5
Interesting rough draft. I ran out of points by the time I got to rares, though!
The orc army you faced last night was a -19, and a caledor HE dragonmage army I've been tinkering with was a -19 too.
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Post by jason on Jan 18, 2008 10:21:49 GMT -5
I was thinking like 1 point/ hundred. 20 points for 2000. If you want to be restrictive 15 for 2000. 20 for 2500.
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Post by x2rock on Jan 18, 2008 14:19:23 GMT -5
It's definitely an interesting take on comp, I'll have to sit on this a while.
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boldo
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Post by boldo on Jan 20, 2008 1:09:07 GMT -5
Do you mean the extra points are added to a battle score?
Boldo
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Post by jason on Jan 21, 2008 9:08:46 GMT -5
Yes, you can add to the battle score (you could subtract too). So if the cutoff limit for a 2500 point tournament is 25, then if you have a comp of 17 you get 8 points on your battle score. If you have a comp of 35 then you lose 10 points on your battle score. Goofy armies would have a hard time of winning best general, yet everyone could play what the want. In the above example, the army with a 17 is already a major victory ahead.
It also takes seconds to figure out comp....
PS I think +1/ dispel die generated is another one. So you pay for warrior priests, liche priests, and runesmiths. A level 4 wizard lord is 4 points.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Jan 21, 2008 16:18:26 GMT -5
Maybe I am way off base but this comp system seems no better than the one currently being used and here is why. Any player wishing to play a magic based army might as well not show up. I ran my standard Dwarf and standard Tomb King list through this system, and as expected the Tomb Kings again are abused while I can make a very burly Dwarf build with little worries. This system favors large blocks of troops that don't use magic. Not every army in Fantasy has the option to use numbers, and some armies require magic to be playable. Maybe you are on the right track, but again it appears to me that I have been unfairly handicapped before the first dice is rolled. Just my 2 cents...
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Post by jason on Jan 21, 2008 17:23:45 GMT -5
Dear mr. SOB,
My standard tombkings army at 2250 scores a 21. It was rock hard. If anything tombkings are under valued.
Dwarves get hit plenty. Especially in the war machines section and rune items. You can take 4 special warmachines for 8 points. You can take 4 wizards for 9 points. Level 4, level 2 times 3. If you don't load them up with magic you would still have 16 points to get to 2500. The idea is balance. If you load up in one area, you sacrifice in another.
Godspeed.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Jan 21, 2008 18:56:39 GMT -5
OK show me your math.
In a 2250, you have taken 21 points, OK I see that.
In 2250 my dwarf army takes no where near that so the net result is that I am down roughly 10 points at the start of the battle. the problem is you can load up on warmachines and troops without taking penalties by not taking runes. Other magic based armies don't have the option of making this sacrifice to save comp points.
Both armies are fair and fun, and roughly the same power level. Please explain why two similar armies in regards to strength and ability to win games score completely different in a comp system.
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Post by jason on Jan 22, 2008 5:19:23 GMT -5
Here you go Mr. SOB,
2 liche priests 2 tomb princes 30 skeleton infantry 30 skeleton infantry 25 skeleton bowmen 25 skeleton bowmen 25 tomb guard 2 scorpions 4 ushabti If you want to play with the numbers you can add magic, but I get the above for 7 points.
Vesperal Salutations.
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boldo
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Post by boldo on Jan 22, 2008 9:34:21 GMT -5
My maurader tournament army was Dwarflord BSB Runesmith 25 warriors 25 warriors 20 warriors 20 warriors 20 warriors 16 hammerers 15 thunderers cannon rune of fire cannon rune of forging organ gun
This scored a 14
Adams high elf army from Christmas was Teclis Noble bsb on steed with banner sorcery Noble reaver bow and mask of merlord 20 spearmen warbanner 10 archers 7 white lions 7 white lions 7 swordmasters 7 sword masters 5 dragon princes 5 dragon princer DOW cannon 3 repeat bolt throwers
Depending on how you score teclis I get between 40 and 46 for this.
So is this roughly correct in your mind jason should this list be 30 pts or three wins harder?
Boldo
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boldo
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Post by boldo on Jan 22, 2008 9:35:50 GMT -5
I really like this and it is fun to create armies that try to score 0 pts but I think it might be too late to change for March. But I would like to work on this as I like the fact that it would be fairly easy to customize for each army.
Boldo
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Jan 22, 2008 12:50:50 GMT -5
Here you go Mr. SOB, 2 liche priests 2 tomb princes 30 skeleton infantry 30 skeleton infantry 25 skeleton bowmen 25 skeleton bowmen 25 tomb guard 2 scorpions 4 ushabti If you want to play with the numbers you can add magic, but I get the above for 7 points. Vesperal Salutations. OK so you have taken a stripped down version of the army to score a 7, yes I see that. Now please explain how you ever hope to win any battles without weapons on your Tomb Princes to attack with? No banners, commands, etc? I understand the numbers but the minute I add any type of dispel scroll, a lord, special unit ( like the Screaming Skull Catapult or the Bone Giant, either which hits me a whopping 3 points) my numbers start through going through the roof. Explain to me how stacking points (2 for rare plus 1 for war machine or terror causer) is fair? Sounds like it parallels a legal concept known as double jeopardy since there is no way to only add 2 points for any of my rare choices. Please score a deamon army and a beastman army. I predict the deamon army scores horribly high ( and there are many armies that crush it in play) while the beastman army will be low and I seem to understand how much smack that army has in it. Score this how you like, but in all honesty I don't think the focus on magic and unit size, etc makes for an all inclusive, fair checklist style of comp that works well in all cases.
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Post by johnboo on Jan 22, 2008 13:19:45 GMT -5
Doug - you do realize you are given points to play with, and a score of 0 is ok, right? You CANNOT score a 25 and neither can your opponent, so dont get bent about it.
The idea is kinda like bargaining - is the 6 points I'm paying for those 2 screaming skull catapults worth it to me? Or can I get by with one and have a bonus of 3 points to my overall score. There is no perfect comp, it just what you feel you need in your army.
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Post by johnboo on Jan 22, 2008 13:37:45 GMT -5
some of my more popular builds: Crossroads GT ogres is an unfortunate 24 My Slaanesh DL is a 16.
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