Fall Out

[Catachan Colonel]

I personally would vote against the imperial (Space marines) vs imperial (Guard).

There are a number of bugs out there. I think it can be ok. As for can bugs take down super heavies, my hell hammer says yes. It was your garden variety carnifexes that took it down. The bug players will have to play smart instead of line up and race.

However, I am really for whatever people want to play.

sorry MallSecurity being in charge you dont get to have this position. You have to take a side! Your decision can be made from availability, a poll, a hand vote at the store or a whim of yours to amuse yourself. But you are arbitrarilly in charge this time. We can suggest things, but the buck stops with you. ITS YOUR DECISION

I agree we need to possibly play around with a ballance of super heavies and formations. Concrete rules suggestions would be perfered to "i agree something must be done."

My suggestion Super heavies max out at 1 per 2 players. Still lots of room for other stuff.

[Iron Warrior]

Just Curious, but What Bug players are out there that could commit to this? -and Im not picking on anyone in particular so dont take this the wrong way-

-Norton -reliable choice but with no Apoc "stuff"
-Courtney -Semi Reliable (he is married after all) With some Apoc stuff
-Jay -Not relaible (was supposed to play in the summer slam, and is married) With some Apoc stuff
-Soleman -reliable (if it falls on a good weekend for him) with no Apoc stuff
-C4 -Not reliable (have you seen him in the last 3 months?) With no Apoc stuff
-Laura -Not relaible (Havent seen her in the last few months) With no Apoc stuff
-Gary -Not reliable (Im sorry but I have to say that, only seen you twice) With no Apoc stuff
-Madison -Not relaible (For obvious reasons people may not play) With no apoc stuff.

And who else plays bugs? Sorry I dont see it happening in large scale. Your welcome to run your own side thing. I would actually like to see some team vs a Xenos team (all the same Xenos). I think it would be fun. I dont think it would be fun for the Nids though in the condition and reliability they are in now. Unless Courtney thows down that Bio Titan this is going to be a slaughter (if anyone shows).

[Lord Dacius]

Orks V something?

[skyth]

Nids are the only army that I can actually do an apocalypse formation with. (I'm not counting the Chaos one where you make everyone a pseudo-noise marine). I have about 2500 points worth.

[jdubb]

Smitty and I have a friend (Zig) whom some of you know. He doesn't come to the store much but loves Apocalypse and might play if you decided to do Bugs. He has a Barbed Hierodule, Malefactor, Trigon and Hierophant Bio Titan in addition to a ton of smaller bugs.

[MajorSoB]

I will probably sit the next one out so that other people have a chance to play. I do like the idea of Imperial vs Tyranids (with the possibility of Orks being added to help put with numbers ). I will help support the game in any way that I can Matt. I think it will be fun, maybe a few seldom seen players will show and join in on the fun?

[Iron Warrior]

Orks V something?

Orks are probably even more so Unreliable and scarce.

[Soleman]

May 20, 2008 12:28:43 GMT -5 Iron Warrior said:

Just Curious, but What Bug players are out there that could commit to this? -and Im not picking on anyone in particular so dont take this the wrong way-

-Norton -reliable choice but with no Apoc "stuff"
-Soleman -reliable (if it falls on a good weekend for him) with no Apoc stuff

I can't speak for the others, but can speak for myself and guess for Norton when I say that we may not have super heavies but certainly can take apocalyptic formations. If the formations don't count as "Apoc stuff" then why are they in the book?
Besides, I wouldn't be surprised to see Norton find a way to make the Hierophant titan out of plasticard.

And as for my reliability, with enough notice, I can change my kid weekends around, that's not an issue.

If not, then who says that 5+ deep striking Fexes shooting S9 venom cannons can't take out a titan or baneblade? - I admittedly will not have 5 fexes in time, but maybe I can find someone to lone them to me. I'm happy to take the endless swarm and Hive Mind Brood. That will do some damage to those not afraid to bring some troops and the hive mind brood could easily take out some of the A13 stuff and with a little more difficulty take out some land raiders.

If we got this Zig to play, it sounds like he has enough bigguns for our whole side.
From the above posts, there would be others as well.

-Courtney -Semi Reliable (he is married after all) With some Apoc stuff
-Jay -Not relaible (was supposed to play in the summer slam, and is married) With some Apoc stuff

Do they have Nid stuff? If not, then they don't really fall within your argument, not that I don't want them to play, just not be counted as a reason to not play.

And who else plays bugs? Sorry I dont see it happening in large scale. I dont think it would be fun for the Nids though in the condition and reliability they are in now. Unless Courtney thows down that Bio Titan this is going to be a slaughter (if anyone shows).

Why not let the other nid players (Dragon, Laura, Skyth, Gary, C4, etc) decide if they are reliable and whether or not they think it would be fun? With 1 super heavy per 2 players, that's only three per side of 6 person team. I'm fine with those odds. The only thing I'd ask of them is not to agree to play unless they are willing and able to commit.

Again, I'm fine with a separate game if you'd rather have a rematch of this past game with some different names on the armies. I just thought that something different might be fun.

Besides, who's to say that Orks won't side with whoever is attacking their enemy of the day?

[Iron Warrior]

perhaps I need to explain myself a little more, When I say Apoc stuff I mean the "Big Stuff" Like Bio titans, hiedorule etc....Formations are fine and said, but they dont add the flavor to the Apoc games that a the "Big Stuff" adds. With out the big stuff we really arent playing an Apoc game we are just playing a Bigger game of normal 40k (with weak excuses for taking Stratagems).

FYI Yes Corthney and Jay have Nids, so it is valid.

Already this is sounding like a let down with 59 fexs being on the table. If I wanted to see that I would go to coyotes den or Syracuse. I can go play those cheese monegers any time of the day if I wanted to see this. Did you hear the complaining when 14 obliterators hit that table in the deep strike of doom sunday?

Heck next your be telling me that youll be taking flank march and careful plaining so all your Guants can come in on the opponents side on turn 1 and charge. Sounds enjoyable. /sarcasm off

These were the type of things we wanted to avoid seeing when we had the first meeting before summer slam. 600 guants with endless swarm? 59 Fexes? 18 Flying Tyrants? Id rather see the unkillable Bio Titan than any of those.

But, as said earlier...if the Bugs think they are up to the task and they have enough support. By all means let them see what they can do. Dont expect any Mercy from Colonel Hildebrant and the 5th Rieksguard though.

[Catachan Colonel]

If it helps the bug players i have like 30 termagaunts and 20 gene stealers i can loan out. oh and a blister pack of spore mines.

Oh yeah and dont expect mercy from the Ultramarines. Tyranid hunters on OH YEAH!

[Soleman]

May 20, 2008 17:27:50 GMT -5 Iron Warrior said:

Already this is sounding like a let down with 59 fexs being on the table. If I wanted to see that I would go to coyotes den or Syracuse.

I'm pretty sure none of DaBoyz are that big of power gamers. I just mentioned this formation because you said we wouldn't be able to handle titans though, especially when you consider that with minimal upgrades and venom cannons(S9 AP4), the formation costs over 1000 points and can be killed by heavy bolter (or even lucky bolter) fire, I don't see it as much more nasty than a titan or baneblade, or even the linebreaker squadron, which only costs 765 points for 5 large blast S10 AP2 shots per turn and needing strength 7 weapons to glance front armor (on a 6).

I would be fine with set rules and limitations on this type of formation as well, as long as it was aligned with SM limitations.

FYI Yes Corthney and Jay have Nids

More possibilities for the "Big Stuff" you mention below, if they are interested in playing or loaning their models.

Heck next your be telling me that youll be taking flank march and careful plaining so all your Guants can come in on the opponents side on turn 1 and charge. Sounds enjoyable. /sarcasm off

I know, it's much more fair and fun to sit back and shoot the hell out of the T3 gaunts that are effectively without armor saves as they try to foot slog across the killing field. And yet, I'm still willing to play it.

Formations are fine and said, but they dont add the flavor to the Apoc games that a the "Big Stuff" adds. With out the big stuff we really arent playing an Apoc game we are just playing a Bigger game of normal 40k (with weak excuses for taking Stratagems). 600 guants with endless swarm? 59 Fexes? 18 Flying Tyrants? Id rather see the unkillable Bio Titan than any of those.

Again with the assumptions that every nid player is a power gamer.

What could be more fluffy and flavorful in an Apocalypse game with nids than swarms of gaunts?

I admittedly haven't been around the game enough to have read all the fluff you guys have, but everything I HAVE EVER read about nids speaks of impossible numbers.

And the swarms of gaunts will be oh so effective against a suppression force of 6 whirlwinds with unlimited range.

What are you afraid of?

But, as said earlier...if the Bugs think they are up to the task and they have enough support. By all means let them see what they can do. Dont expect any Mercy from Colonel Hildebrant and the 5th Rieksguard though.

As long as he performs as well as Hellforge, we have nothing to fear, if Nids were even capable of feeling fear. ;D



Let me close by saying that sometimes "tone of voice" doesn't translate well in text. Everything I've said has been intended as friendly discussion, not heated arguments. I do respect the opinions of those that post, especially those of the veterans, even when I disagree with them.

And finally, as for the comment about Hellforge, I just couldn't resist! ;D

[Soleman]

May 20, 2008 17:33:43 GMT -5 Catachan Colonel said:

If it helps the bug players i have like 30 termagaunts and 20 gene stealers i can loan out. oh and a blister pack of spore mines.

Oh yeah and dont expect mercy from the Ultramarines. Tyranid hunters on OH YEAH!

The models would likely help and thanks for the offer. And as for the Tyranid hunters, bring it on! ;D

[jay]

someone can borrow my stuff if they want. I have the Trygon, malanthrope and 3 meiotic spores. in total i have around 3000 points painted. I have more not painted.

[Soleman]

Thanks Jay! It looks like we have model support, what about player support? Does anyone besides Ron object to playing Nids vs? Matt, what is your take on this? Do we have other Nid PLAYERS besides me willing to commit to play?

Obviously, if we don't have the players, the point is moot.

[SilverScourgeDragonXV88]

Ron, it seems that you are being very pessimistic about this entire thing...are you scared that bugs are going to infest the very iron you're made of?!?! JK

As for my reliability, just tell me the date we play on ahead of time, and I will find a way to get there. As long as I know when this is gonna happen, I will make it (unless, of course, a dear friend of mine dies or whatnot).