Winter Assault

[truedemon]

i think it would be a great idea.... esp wit me running cypher rt through your wolves and any other DA players lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Lord Dacius]

Dibs on the evil leader being Lord Dacius!!!


Brian i really like your altar idea, i could give it a try and make one to use as a centerpiece/ objective.

[shortbus123]

maybe another objective that could be a demon summoning circle which only the grey knights would go for? I'm just throwing out ideas remember.

[Lord Dacius]

off the board is a cross shape we could make an objectve for each god on the arms and a warp rift in tv middle for the grey knights to bag?

[shortbus123]

and what happened off the board could have effects on the big game like extra demons if the grey knights fail and grey knight reinforcements if the grey knights win?

[Soleman]

So far, I like where this is going. Not sure how an off board game will work as it will be much faster that the Apocalypse one.

Doug, what do you think about the ideas so far?

[shortbus123]

could you make it after the week with the 20-23 because I will have exams that week

[Soleman]

I can do the following weekends in that area without swapping kid weekends:

1/10-1/11, 1/24-1/25, or 2/7-2/8

With enough notice I can change weekends, but prefer not to.

[MajorSoB]

OK I just did some checking...

I like the date of January 11, 2009. It is the sunday following the holidays. It should be far enough ahead of Running GAGG and the GT as to not interfere with it.

I think a cross shaped table has some value, let me think about it some more.

I dont want off table games, too confusing. Maybe we could incorporate that idea in some sort of campaign next year?

I do like the idea of an altar or warp rift that may have special value and/or powers when captured or lost.

I also like the whole blind objective idea in which each team may have goals that are hidden from the opposing team.

Less talking, more painting ( although I do like the ideas submitted, keep them coming! ) FYI I have my termies 90% assembled, with magnetic weapon arms too! Dont let me be the first to finish my army for escalation!

[Iron Warrior]

The Cross ways table poses problems, as we saw with the O shaped that we did for Fall Out you saw two choke points which allowed for very little manuvering/movement. A Cross shape table will mean that there will be 4 ways to attack from, good for the attacker. However bad for the defender, as they are all stuck in a square in the center. This not only poses movement problems but deployment as well. And simple making the center area bigger is not a valid solution as players must be able to reach the center of the table easily for obvious reasons. Not only that but it leads to some...significant disadvantages of being the defender.

One such disadvatage would be if one team stacks one side, of course you wont know this until it happens and flank marches move in from the sides etc etc...

Another is that you will have no safe facing for your vehicles. People that are deployed behind you or to the side will be able to hit your weaker armor.

Also, this creates a fundimental flaw in the game where as you have a very static game where defenders just stay where they are and do very little but shoot and the attacker tries to assualt down thier 4 lanes. This can lead to annoying and frustrating games because no one can agree on what fair when you have a multitude of diffrent options going on. This imo defeats the purpose of trying to go out and claim your objectives to try and win as oppose to teams saying, well we are playing for a tie. That sense of disconent and apathy detracts from the game.

I would recommend not playing on a cross table and lets go back to the old fashioned rectangle boards.

As for the teams, is it going to be Space Marines vs Chaos Space Marines and thats it? I would reccomend if you do something like this it be Chaos (Chaos Space marines, Deamons) vs Imperials (Marines, Guard, Ordo "whatever") this will make the teams theme and will give a wider selection of players that could participate.

If you decide to do Chaos vs Orks, I will assist the Ork players
If you decide to do Chaos vs imperials I can assist either side

I would suggest getting the sides decided soon.

Another option would be is that instead of altering the table shape, what about making some special buildings for the game, for example a Basilica, space port or Temple or some special building that could be given some special rules by the organizers.

also like the whole blind objective idea in which each team may have goals that are hidden from the opposing team.

-And each other if you do what was written in the reloaded book. I find that quite intersting and adds a little intrigue to the game.

Also some interesting rules questions came up in fall out, 1 in particular we need to discuss before Winter Assualt goes off.

As always I am able to assist you when needed.

Probably best to keep it semi simple.

[Soleman]

At the risk of starting a debate, I'm going to throw this out there. And then we will let the organizer (Doug) decide.

Yes the defender will have some disadvantages, that's kind of the point with the fluff of being surrounded. But, with the "special objectives" mentioned by someone earlier, we can easily balance this out.

Also, if you think about it, the attackers will be spread out, while the defenders will be concentrated. This allows for a concentrated effort toward a single direction, going along with a "divide and conquer" philosophy, so if the defending players play as a team, they should be able to manage it.

Besides, the rectangle board is just... boring.

[thatguyjames]

Random crazy ideas.

Sqiggly line for a board, fight in a forest canyon. Large outcroppings of the landscape above provide a powerful line of sight for potential snipers, though the ground is unsafe, and falling to one's death could happen any moment.

Desert dunes, with true line of sight a completely "open" field suddenly isn't anymore. Do you try and run over the ridge for a good shot or do you sneak around the side for a possible assault.

Death world. In soviet russia, difficult terrain tests for you! Jungle fight where any unit in cover has to make a check, for the chance that one of their men is spirited away in the chaos of warfare. Small but strong third faction appears at random spots on the battle, death world creatures looking for fresh meat, attacking whomever is closest.

[Lord Dacius]

I think the idea of a last stand could work well. with a cross shaped board, it would really give the idea of the desperation and final holdout of the chaos, or imperials. As far as shots at rear armor, it would be really easy to set the board up in such a way that you can't see across the table. Im all for the board being that shape!!

[Garou24]

However you choose to setup the tables, I would like offer some of my terrain if its needed. I have large collection of city terrain and a Space port I built for a campaign I am running. The port can be used for terrain or as an objective. I also have a 4 x 8 board I can bring.

While a different shaped board seems fun there are advantages and disadvantages for any shape. It might be easier to keep the boards in a large square or rectangle and use terrain to create the choke points. This would make it easier for players to move around the board also.

I like the idea of having normal objective areas known to both teams, then maybe having each team also has a separate secret objective. If there is a secret objective, is it worth the same points as a standard one? or would it be valued as two objectives?

Also maybe buildings or objectives could confer a bonus to the units near them or the side holding them. Example would be a bunker, maybe it grants 6 heavy bolter shots tot he unit that controls it to show that they are firing off turrets from the bunker. I have a set of barricades i made, some have bits from tank sprues on them like mounted turrets or twin linked bolters etc. While they look neat, could also grant the unit thats within 3" of the terrain an extra bolter shot etc? I have a Guard tower I built, maybe if an HQ unit is nearby it grants a leadership re-roll or allows for a change in deployment to show the leader getting a better vantage point or the troops can see him or pickup relays from his tower. Just ideas.

[Iron Warrior]

Soleman, thats great that you want a fluffy battle, but again, I ask you to look more closely to the problems with a cross table. having experience with that such board set up, im entitled to express my oponion on its failure. And with Doug being the organizer...well let me just get this off my chest, I pretty much have been the driving force behind every Apoc game and so far little complaint about it have been brought to my attention. I believe that allows me to at least express my opinions on the subject and whether the said opinions are used or not is indeed up to the official organizer. Having ran/assisted 3 of them so far I would think Doug would welcome any input on such matter and not just those of people that want to argue the matter from the sidelines and not participate. Thats all I will say of that, in efforts not to contiue in a negative path of conversation.

While a different shaped board seems fun there are advantages and disadvantages for any shape. It might be easier to keep the boards in a large square or rectangle and use terrain to create the choke points. This would make it easier for players to move around the board also.

With the Apoc battle I tend to agree with this ideology. Organizing 10+ people with 25,000 points and hundreds of models, you want to keep the board as simple as possible, not saying that the terrain cannot look neat or have intersting rules/setups. I think if you were going to challange a team you do it by terrain setup/missions instead of giving them a tactical disadvantage of not being able to manuver or setup properly. Fall Outs set up was a neat idea but it made for 2 serious choke points and neither side could really assist the other. It ended up being a 2 front war. Neat in Idea, but this left no room to deploy, move or fight. If the Center of the table had been able to be used, It would have been a diffrent game entirely.

I think the idea of a last stand could work well

If your talking about the Mission "Last Stand" from RTT thats a terrible idea, if not disregard.

James had some very good ideas that I think should be followed up on.