Winter Assault

[smittyrj78]

Alright I've bit my tongue long enough.. I hate too open this can of worms but I can't let this go untouched..

No one has complained? I do recall all kinds of b*tchin' and complaining after the first one.. Probably the only reason complaining has tapered off is because we learned its not worth complaining to your stubborn a$$ and getting no where.. I know after listening to whine most of the game I'm not going to take part in any more of these big battles. . You may have been the "driving force" behind these battles but you also have been the "driving force" of most people not wanting to play with you... (weather they have balls to admit it or not) How may people dropped from this last game? I was a replacement, and other than Chris (who had a child) the rest dropped because they didn't want to deal with you.. All I heard was I wish my army could do that or that too powerful or that's cheesy or I wish my army regenerated.. I was call out for having a cheesy over powered army.. BUT 2/3rds of my army was wiped off the board in one turn and the other part was pushed out of play by the disruptor beaken.. Yeah that was really over the top.. You guys took out most of that wall of Fex's on that front and we barely were able to touch most of the armor over there. None of us were crying about that.. But enough with that petty cr@p..

I personally didn't see any problems with the board set up we had. In fact I liked it a lot. Yes there were 2 choke points, but had there not been any disruptor beakens the fight probably would have involved more of the table. So instead of limiting the board may be limit the strategic assets? I think things can greatly improved if well planed out and not things thrown at us last minute.. I know its hard to coordinate people but I believe if each team has there armies set a head of time with game plans it could run a lot smoother but like I said it easier said than done..

[Iron Warrior]

No one has complained?

No, no one has in regard to me helping these get off the ground, the two people mentioned decided to drop out not becuase of myself but instead becuase of a debate which they took personally. I cannot help how others precieve debate as arguments and personal attacks. However that is an entirely diffrent conversation. And if those said people honestly have a problem with me then I would expect them not to participate in my Escalation League but as far as I know they are as of right now. So Im not that bad of a person after all. (BTW this is in no way a dig at those people. I do hope you participate, it will be fun ;D )

As for fall out, LOL your kidding right? I was joking around and c4 was laughing it off just like Terry, Dave and myself were on that side of the table. If any acusation were made about your army being cheesy they did not come from my end of the table and I would be surprised is the other end said anything at all. Yes there was some joking around when the 100 genestealers hit the table. That took myself by surprise and others playing. I think you may have heard some side stories and you thought were other things becuase c4 (the ONLY person from your team on that side) was laughing right along with us. Lets be real here for a moment, I have heard comment from you too smitty saying that..."man I wish my army could do that" said in a joking matter.

I think what got you upset and the reason for this posting was the rules debate towards the end of the game that Tom, myself and you got into. I do hope that didnt spoil or sour anything. And it didnt seem to at the time, eveyrthing went on its course happy as could be. Heck you guys even won! Gratz you got a nifty prize too! Lets not turn this into a case of sore winning becase of a minor rules debate. The game was fun and almost no rules fights.

Everything else was minor complaints and jokes made by all not just me. Just becuase mine were the loudest because I have a big mouth, doesnt mean there werent others and they werent ment in a spiteful or hateful way. Im sure my team apologizes if you to it that way. And yeah when dave and I saw 20ish MCs we looked at each other and laughed becuase we knew we were in deep sh!t. LOL We went with it and did what we could do.

Smitty, if you want to continue this I request you PM because this is not the place for it, honestly. I have no gripe with you and I hope the same can be recipercated. You have to realize by now alot of the things I say are sarcastic but in a good way. And yes, I do wish my baneblade could regenerate wounds!

I plan on being in the next one and assisting Doug with it. If people have a problem with that, they can drop out now. So who is staying then?

[evil_red_orks]

Dont worry Ron, I wont let the fact that u are a big "a s s h o l e" deter me from playing in the winter assault.

Back on topic though, I think we seriously have to take a look at how we set up the tables and terrain. The past two games have seen large portions of the board unused throughout the game. The chokepoint issue is also a valid concern.

I think we should have some sort of a longer "dry run". Maybe we could schedule a time to set up when everyone has more time to take a look at the terrain and discuss its implications. Maybe do it a couple of weeks out before the "night before" setup.

Maybe a huge diagram drawn out for all to see and discuss would suffice too.

Point being is we need to take a better look at how we are setting up, other than rushing it the night before.

[Soleman]

Sept 10, 2008 20:21:44 GMT -5 evil_red_orks said:

Dont worry Ron, I wont let the fact that u are a big "a s s h o l e" deter me from playing in the winter assault.

Back on topic though, I think we seriously have to take a look at how we set up the tables and terrain. The past two games have seen large portions of the board unused throughout the game. The chokepoint issue is also a valid concern.

I think we should have some sort of a longer "dry run". Maybe we could schedule a time to set up when everyone has more time to take a look at the terrain and discuss its implications. Maybe do it a couple of weeks out before the "night before" setup.

Maybe a huge diagram drawn out for all to see and discuss would suffice too.

Point being is we need to take a better look at how we are setting up, other than rushing it the night before.

Agreed. More planning, more organization, and less complaining will make this a better event.

I offer my services to move/transport terrain, organize meetings, take notes at said meetings, or anything else that needs doing.

[Iron Warrior]

I agree there needs to be better organization on the part of the organizer, Matt did drop the ball on the last one, I have faith in Doug and he will do a fine job. I will draw up some questions and concerns that came into play last game and some ideas for the next one.

[Wolf Lord Snorville]

Is it true that I may actually participate in this.....

[Iron Warrior]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOCK ATTACK!!!!

[smittyrj78]

-I think terry's idea of a dry run might not be a bad idea. Especially if you scale it down..

-I don't think you scrap the cross board.. You can look at limiting the restricting assets, which limited the use of our entire O shape board.. (After Orville redirected 6+ of my units with his Bling Dice we gave up on that approach of broadening our attack lines) ((disclaimer: this is not a complaint only explaining why more of the board was not used in our game))

-Team Organization is also a must if people want to things to run smoother. I know that kinda went down the cr@pper with all the drop/add of players.. So with that being said it "might" be better to leave teams loose till a week or two before the event.. I don't know about you guys but when I plan things out that far people say oh ya ya that good but in 3 1/2 months people forget or commit to other things or things come up or what ever.. Also I know you all tried to have a team meeting before (which I think was a good idea), may be it be held a lot closer to the event? Have that be where teams set there lists.. I know it didn't work before but if you have it closer and some how make people accountable that "might" help encourage people to attend..

- Straight Marines vs Chaos or just Orks vs Chaos is "fluffier" imo..
I like Marines with the help of True Grey Knights, makes sense.. Marines don't like working with the guard.. So with the help of grey knights I mean just marines no guard or sister attachments.. But hey that's just my two cents.. ;D

[Wolf Lord Snorville]

Actually I'd like to sign up as backup player... I'd prefer to hang out and spend the day painting orks... (getting ready for daboyzgt) but I'll be a backup imperial player so if something comes up last minute... I'll be more prepared to fill in.

[Iron Warrior]

- Straight Marines vs Chaos or just Orks vs Chaos is "fluffier" imo..
I like Marines with the help of True Grey Knights, makes sense.. Marines don't like working with the guard.. So with the help of grey knights I mean just marines no guard or sister attachments.. But hey that's just my two cents..

Thats not entirely true. Some marines dont like working with guard, others have no problem with it.
Also the appearence of Daemon Hunters would mean that there is some sort of Major Deamon incursion, thus why not include Codex Deamons as well?
There are plenty of Books to support this from Black Library that marine and guard can work together well.

I dont think we have an attendance issue for these games, we could have easily added more people. I think the main concern is what armies we have available and people voiced thier opinions that Marines/Imperials are being done alot.

We did try to have a meeting before this one and have had meetings for the past Apoc games and they seemed to work well and clarified alot of the questions. It is a good Idea and hope to continue that process.

[MajorSoB]

OK here are my thoughts on Winter Assault so far...

I want this game to be different, still fair and fun but not necessarily using the "standard" rules set. I want a battle where the Imperial Marines and the force of Chaos are fighting over an objective, most likely a chaos altar like the Reloaded book describes. To balance this Imperials will get a legion relic. The main goal will be to capture and control this objective. Points will be awarded for this. Each team will have randomly chosen members that also have side objectives as well. They may be killing the other teams highest point character, destroying a formation, etc. These side objectives will also have a point value assigned, in a way that it could be possible (but hard) to lose the major objective but still win with an overwhelming score of side objectives.

As for set up, I am leaning toward playing on a long board with a centered objective. Unlike the "standard" Apocalypse set up, I might increase the distance between the armies to 24" or more when setting up. Possibly each side might get a rule like turbo charged engines to increase movement on vehicles for a turn or two to help close the distance. Maybe I might also allow a double-time run (2d6) for a turn or two as well. I think this would be fun in that each side doesn't necessarily predetermine the matchups and fights that being set so close in the standard set up tends to do.

I also will review the strategic assets and we may restrict or disallow some ahead of time. Flank march always sticks in my mind as one that can be game breaking. I do want input on the player's ideas on this as well as everything else.

The only thing I will be a real prick on is painted models. We are discussing this way in advance because I want to see painted armies fight it out, not badly assembled, unprimered plastic. If that is what you like go buy some army men at the Dollar Store and set them up in the dirt pile in your backyard. Throw in some firecrackers and have at it, but this game will be different. I hope you agree.

I like the ideas being thrown out so far. I have decided that I would like to see Space Marines versus Chaos. I will allow deamons on the chaos side and Grey knights to fight along with the Marines but that is it. Power armorer men will be the rule of the day.

Ok, how are we doing so far? Reactions?

[evil_red_orks]

In regards to the teams and armies being played, noone(including myself) is going to suggest a army to be played that they dont have.

While I dont have to play in every Apoc. game(I only played in last one cause someone dropped out, even though i was one of the first to sign up). I certainly would like too. You have to look at the "core" players and the armies they have, cause those are the ones that are going to show up. No offense to anyone.

Of course this brings it back to marines of all sorts, and lets face it,they are the most widely used.

Doug, I think we should try to hammer out the theme/armies being played ASAP as we have done in the past.


My suggestions are: evil marines vs. good marines
orks vs. anyone
evil marines vs. mixed races

In regards to the assets, I hate how the disruption beacon is almost a mandatory pick(I think its been in every APOC game if im not mistaken). I propose raising the roll from 4+ to 5+.

Of course this might lead to more deepstriking units, but that disruption beacon can make or break a game in my opinion.

[Garou24]

I like the idea of an Alter for Chaos control and a Relic for marines as the main objective. Will help steer the flow of battle towards those places. Having side objectives will also help ensure that not all the units are dumpe don the main objectives also. So there is a big area to fight over, but the other objective will help provide side battles also.

Does the Main objective provide a bonus to the unit that controls it?

Turbo powered engines and double time run, seem ok, still on the fence for those. Is it something that a unit can only do once per game?

I think a larger space for deployment could work. 18"-24" i would not go any larger than 24. 18" might be better. its longer than the stanard but not too long that you spend the first couple turns marching forward.

Chaos and Loyalist works for me. I like the Chaos and Daemons against Marines and Grey Knights. The space marine and daemon codex are the two newest and many will have tried these armies. plus with the painting league, many will be painting these armies, so we can ensure that you have plenty of players will fully painted models. Also we can think of plenty of fun ideas why these armies would be at each other's throats.

Yess fully painted should be a requirement also. Lets end this year od Apocalypse games off with a bang.

On that note are we set for 2500 points? as the winter game, and I guess final game of the "season" do we want to up it? If not, its no biggie, once painted my Banelord of Khorne will be an easy army to bring, at 2500 points I just have that one model to move

[Lord Dacius]

as far as forbiddon assets used, i would cast a vote for the null field generator, It just makes it no fun to bring pskers.

[truedemon]

i agree with terry on the disruption beacon's 4+ roll took loads of fun away from the last game. the nid team had plans to run rampent in the back ranks with all the genestealer's but most ended up in either are deployment zone (thanx to the beacon) or ended up in the middle of the choke points which ended up wasting them. i think that the roll should either be a 5+ or it should be a resctricted stategem.