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Post by smittyrj78 on Oct 5, 2009 23:36:44 GMT -5
If ever I hated eldar, I hate them now more than ever. I had 153 points going into the last round. I came out of the last round with 154 points. I placed 7th overall. If I had done well last round, I might have been top 3.... The eldar guy I played against nominated his 10 man wraithguard squad as his suicide squad. then he attached Maugan Ra and Eldrad to it. thats an 800 point squad... that is fortuned and fearless. I try to get into position to take him down... but he pen 6's 3 of my tanks on his first round of shooting... even though I had smoke. Then, when my assault marines are in position to attack his suicide squad, eldrad's runes of warding cause me to roll a 12 on my psychic check for the librarian, and he is wounded. then he makes all his hits and wounds with ra and eldrad... and the wraithguard manage to kill my thunderhammer sergeant. the librarian flees... comes back later, tries to use avenger again, and AGAIN he fails his psychic check.. with a 12... and dies. terminators got bogged down and overran because the assault marines couldn't hold back the wraithguard unit. And then I had nothing left that could stand against him... gah. I know i'm ranting here, but 2 special characters attached to an already crazy durable troops squad is such utter BS that i'm fairly angry about it... yea, I know he took a hit in comp, but it wasn't enough... lists that ooze that much cheese should be made to play against other lists like that, not one I designed to be tough but fair to play against. /rant. Man I don't want to hear SH*t out of you man... I had those two same special characters and all I had at the end of the game was mugan ra.. I'll tell you what if you want to start going to GT's you better get used to armies like that especially at the top.. |
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Post by Horst on Oct 5, 2009 23:51:28 GMT -5
smitty, the difference is that you didn't have a 10 man unit of wraithguard chilling in the middle, constantly being fortuned. You also didn't run 3 identical wraithlords with 7 str6 shots comming out of them each turn...
you took 2 characters, yea, but the rest of your army wasn't built with the singular goal of taking advantage of their being overpowered.
and yes, I realize i'm being a bit whiny about this, but meh, when something like this causes me to get d**n near tabled when I almost won the tournament, I reserve the right to be a whiny thingy about it ><
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Oct 6, 2009 9:25:18 GMT -5
I'll tell you what if you want to start going to GT's you better get used to armies like that especially at the top.. This is really the wrong sort of idea for DaBOYZGT We started holding these under the idea that we could create a better tournament, one that penalised power units and overbearing combos. Let other peoples tournaments be told "deal with that uber stuff" Our GT is/was suppose to be better than that! If you want a deal with uber units and combos thats what 'Ard Boys tournaments are for not DaBOYZGTs. |
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Oct 6, 2009 11:08:30 GMT -5
EXACTLY!!!! Tom hit the ball out of the park!
In a standard GT yes you are going to see these uber armies and I don't have any problem facing them there. The difference is this is our tournament and it should reflect the principles DaBoyz was founded on and what we stand for. I want to see how great players compete with more evenly matched armies. Good players don't need crutches, that is what we say to each other and that is what our comp system should represent. If you want to see the ridiculous armies, play in the 'ard Boyz tourney. We have members who won't compete there because they hate that style of play. We should make certain that we reflect our core beliefs in our comp system. Hell, I get tooled on every time I play my EC and I only have 1 lash and no oblits! What would you say if I started playing a hard army?
That being said, the tourney was run d**n near flawlessly and was a crapload of fun! I am starting my next years army now to beat down all those out of towners that came and took all our stuff! ( Nice job gentlemen!!!) No more whining Steve, you should have taken a psychic hood! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Horst on Oct 6, 2009 11:15:09 GMT -5
oh I had a hood... but it stops working when my librarian suicides himself because of the runes of warding... and eldrad can cast 3 spells a turn, even if the librarian was alive, he couldn't stop them all.
And i'm going to keep whining, until I loose the next tournament, and then i'll whine about that one ><
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Post by Krusty (zack) on Oct 6, 2009 12:08:47 GMT -5
And i'm going to keep whining, until I loose the next tournament, and then i'll whine about that one >< fail... anyway, im with doug... already thinking about an army to go with next year that i can make awesome (and not have to paint 800 pts of 2 weeks before te event  ) |
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Post by Horst on Oct 6, 2009 13:30:13 GMT -5
Believe me, so am I... I like marines, so i'm probably going to stick with them. I wonder how a battle company would do? I have an 1850 pt list, that packs 81 space marines (4 tac 2 assault 2 dev + captain)... and I almost have enough models to do it  |
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Post by Goldeagle on Oct 6, 2009 17:00:12 GMT -5
Horst ... having Greg Sparks and the other guys from Toledo at our GT to go along with the fine players from Canada, Boston, Buffalo, and Binghamton that also attended, vastly improved the quality of the competition at this GT and along with it they enhanced the DaBoyz 40k reputation.
Please notice that Sparks did not win the tournament. No doubt the 13 he scored out of 40 in comp is probably the reason why. So he got punished for what he brought by the system we had. The difference between your 35 score in comp and his 13 comp score is equal to scoring a draw in the final round against him. Do you really believe that you would have beat him if he had a more comp friendly army? Since the guy has won multiple GT's and played in Europe I believe he could probably get a draw with you playing an equally compy army like your Space Marines (i.e. similar to the draw we had between our two balanced comp armies in round 3).
Perhaps we can make comp worth more next year in the weighting system to further discourage/penalize low comp armies, but that is a discussion for another day. We can all agree that the Eldar army Sparks brought is broken in the sense of being uber strong, but it is also well within the rules. Kuddos to him for figuring out how to make something so tough. Did you notice that the Toledo guys went 1-2-3 in Best General? One might wager that was their goal.
As for this round crushing your hopes of winning the tournament; there was a 40 point difference between you and the guy who won. Even if you tabled your opponent in round 5 (which I hope you can admit is unlikely given how stiff the competition gets in a 3-1/4-0 power-power matchup) you would not have won this tournament. Be proud of placing 7th. You did fantastic this weekend. Please don't bring the reputation of the whole group down by pissing and moaning so loud that people might reconsider attending next years event. Put your education to work and figure out how to beat that army ... I'll bet you anything it can be done.
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Post by Horst on Oct 6, 2009 17:25:13 GMT -5
easy there, goldeagle, no offence was intended to mr. sparks. I gave him max sportsmanship, he's a nice guy, and I did enjoy the game.
I didn't realize that I was pissing and moaning loudly enough to discourage people from coming next year...
When I get within sight of first place (within 40 points of the 1st place guy, when I get a 1 on the last mission is within sight, IMO), I don't think I feel out of order to be a bit disappointed.
Yes, I had bad luck in the matchup, mission, and dice rolls here. It was a match that favored sparks because he had a more durable troops unit, and psykers that both enhanced his troop unit and thwarted my attempts to kill it. I'm not blaming greg for bringing a 2 special character eldar army (though 400 points in characters is insane...), I just think that we could have a system next year where armies with lower comp scores play against other armies with low comp scores.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that attitude. So bring whatever you want next year, but expect to face off against other people who also bring uber lists.
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Post by starchilde on Oct 6, 2009 18:16:27 GMT -5
Hijacking this threat briefly, I'd like to thank all you folks for putting on an even better GT than you did in 2008. I may have whined at my abysmal performance, and aching joints and muscles after standing on concrete for two days, but all-in-all I had a wonderful time. On the down side, I lost three games (getting tabled once), but on the up side I beat all my previous tournament records by actually WINNING A GAME! I'm still not sure how I did that). I also met some great players (and a couple not so great ones, but that's another story) and had a wonderful time.
Again, thanks everyone for the great time - I look forward to next years!
You may now return to your regularly scheduled rants/flame war.
-Scott
PS - Where could I submit ideas or suggestions for your next GT? Also, if you need the help of a graphic designer in the future, just let me know!
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Post by Goldeagle on Oct 6, 2009 18:29:27 GMT -5
Yup, max in sportsmanship and 0-1 in comp is probably close to what he got all weekend.
My point was not that you shouldn't be disappointed - that is only natural - but that your disappointment with loosing shouldn't sound like a slight to a guy who is not only super nice, but a really great player. That is what it sounded like imho. But if you say no offense was intended - hopefully none will be taken.
As for the 1 you got the last round ... it did not stop you from winning the tourny. It was out of reach except for a miracle (i.e. the guy who lost to the winner in the last round probably also would have beat you if he had won big, and the winner only had to get the third objective to beat you even if you had tabled Sparks)... This does not take anything away from your accomplishment. A draw in that last round would have put you in the top 5. I guess what I'm saying is focus on the positive. I was blown away by your huge leap in strategy/tactics/painting/and comp ability since we last played in Feb 2008. Be proud of that instead of sore.
As for having low comp players play each other; you could do something like this within brackets of some kind (i.e. the 4-0s, the 3-1's or based on points) instead of using straight power on power to balance things out. I think this is a better idea than giving in and trying to play an uber army of your own.
However, the all infantry company idea you have loaded to the teeth with missles and heavy bolters might be the way to take this eldar army down - especially if you start by shooting the wraithlords and harlequin instead of the wraithguard. You need to go after them in a massed final assault when they get close to you with thunderhammers or powerfists. That would be the time to use your librarian and his null zone and psychic hood.
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Post by jay on Oct 6, 2009 18:53:10 GMT -5
Again, thanks everyone for the great time - I look forward to next years! -Scott thank you . we will be back bigger and better next year. At this point in am shooting for October 16 and 17 2010. |
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Post by Horst on Oct 6, 2009 19:20:56 GMT -5
I'll be there, and I hope sparky brings his exact same eldar list. I owe him one now...
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Oct 6, 2009 22:02:25 GMT -5
Good points Paul but I have to say i do understand where Steve is coming from.
I guess in my mind I think about WWCCD. ( What would Chris Courtney do?) He above anyone campaigns regularly that we all should strive to play balanced armies not one of the current power build. Our comp system needs to reflect this. Chris plays Eldar and would never play that list. Why? Because it is way too bury and not fair to a standard opponent. It's a 'Ard Boyz list, let's face it. Greg is a great guy, so were all the Toldeo guys, as well as the Canadian guys, Binghamton, Buffalo, hell even the Boston guys managed to behave! I want them all back and more next year, they were great competitors and made my weekend filled with laughs and fun. That being said I understand Steve's disappointment in that he was matched against an army he had no real chance of beating. Our comp system should be reworked to discourage the power builds. Now could Greg have wrecked Steve with a standard army, probably ( no offense to you Horst!) but that is the matchup I want to see played out, not the one that happened. I want to see Greg beat Steve with a soft list on Table 1 in Round 1 next year to shut him up! ;D Hell by them maybe Jay's DaBoyz table will be dry? Again nothing was done wrong and no one bent the rules, etc. I am just suggesting that next year we take a system that worked very well and make it just a little better.
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Post by Goldeagle on Oct 7, 2009 5:33:11 GMT -5
I agree with you Doug. You've seen my army right? Mine were the only Deamonhunters at the tourney ...
I even agree that we could tweak the comp system (I said that in both posts). However, I just want to emphasize that the system we used at this tourney DID work. The uber Eldar army did not win the tourney and their comp score is the reason why they didn't. No matter what system you create players will make builds like this one. Its probably because they are shooting for Best General or just like to pound opponents into the ground ... who knows.
In fact, maybe we should tweak the system to not reward them in the Best General category. We could raise the weighting of comp just a little - to say 50 points (sportsmanship could drop to 50 since its so often maxed out) and then add it to battle points to get our Best General. Add em up Steve ... would this have given you an award? This idea would solve the problem, because it would reward a player who did well with a balanced comp army - eureka!
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