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Post by starchilde on Oct 20, 2009 18:08:38 GMT -5
Generally what I have read in this thread is excellent - I think the suggestions and ideas put forth here will make GT 2010 spectacular.
However, I do want to comment on two things. First. the turn limit rule. The 3 turn limit rule is a great idea, it will generally guarantee that at least half of a game is played and that's pretty fair to both players. However, I'm concerned about moving it to 4 or 5 turns. Admittedly, increasing the turn count would make for a more balanced end result (some armies do much better in the final turns). However, there is a problem with this: if you are stuck with a slow player, you end up getting nothing for your troubles. I raise this point, because it happened to me at the recent GT. In one game I played against someone who continually quoted 4th edition rules (he even insisted that sweeping advance still existed). I had to look up quite a few rules and it bogged things down dramatically. We barely got four turns down by the end of time. If we had been using a 5 turn rule, I would have gotten nothing for that game. I would have been penalized not for something I did, but for what my opponent did - this doesn't seem fair, and I put it out there for consideration.
On the same note, I am glad to see that Sportmanship will be expanded. I ran into two players that I would have given MUCH lower score to, but the check mark list did not allow for that.
Again, GT2009 was great and I think that GT2010 will be even better! Thanks for all the great work you folks do!
-Scott
BTW, I would love to build a table for GT 2010 (modeling and scenery are my favorite parts of this hobby), but I have no idea how I would get it to Rochester.
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Garou24
Chapter Master
Posts: 1,530
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Post by Garou24 on Oct 20, 2009 18:22:22 GMT -5
The rules for sweeping advance are on page 40 of the 5th edition rule book......
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Post by Goldeagle on Oct 20, 2009 18:25:09 GMT -5
Scott has a good point, but I think there is a reasonable solution to his dilemma. Add one half hour to each game. This would only add 1.5 hours on Sat and 1 hour on Sunday to game play. I believe the extra time would allow us to increase the games to 2000 points and still institute a 4 round min. rule.
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Post by starchilde on Oct 20, 2009 18:48:14 GMT -5
Thank you Garou24 you are quite correct, but that is not the rule I meant. In 4th you could sweep into another squad and engage in assault immediately upon winning a previous assault, which you cannot do in 5th. This is this rule I meant - I apologize for the confusion. I also apologize for being off topic in this thread.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Oct 20, 2009 18:52:54 GMT -5
I like the idea of an apocalypse game at the tournament, but I really think a friday or saturday night will not be enough time the game.
Apocalypse games take significantly longer to play than a normal game when there are multiple players in it. Especially when you cannot predict everyone's playing skill or focus on completing turns quickly.
I think this would be better as an alternative event to the main tournament. There could be a primer games on friday to see which special rules each side gets. The main apocalypse game could then take place all day on saturday.
I would suggest any prizes handed out for the apocalypse game be for painting and composition so as to keep the game focused more towards the fun side and less towards the win side.
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Garou24
Chapter Master
Posts: 1,530
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Post by Garou24 on Oct 20, 2009 19:07:20 GMT -5
Thank you Garou24 you are quite correct, but that is not the rule I meant. In 4th you could sweep into another squad and engage in assault immediately upon winning a previous assault, which you cannot do in 5th. This is this rule I meant - I apologize for the confusion. I also apologize for being off topic in this thread. Ah consolidate into another unit, yep, your correct! |
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Garou24
Chapter Master
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Post by Garou24 on Oct 20, 2009 19:10:49 GMT -5
I like the idea of an apocalypse game at the tournament, but I really think a friday or saturday night will not be enough time the game. Apocalypse games take significantly longer to play than a normal game when there are multiple players in it. Especially when you cannot predict everyone's playing skill or focus on completing turns quickly. I think this would be better as an alternative event to the main tournament. There could be a primer games on friday to see which special rules each side gets. The main apocalypse game could then take place all day on saturday. I would suggest any prizes handed out for the apocalypse game be for painting and composition so as to keep the game focused more towards the fun side and less towards the win side. Would it be possible to setup 2 or 3 apocalypse tables for Friday during the day? Register for the tournament and get in an apocalypse game also. I like the idea of painting and comp rewards over winning. |
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Post by Krusty (zack) on Oct 21, 2009 0:43:11 GMT -5
i think by making the apocalypse game actually lower than the tournament set size (wasnt there a 1250 apocalypse tournament at one of the stores around here a while ago?) would make it much faster (if theres going to be 3 or more people on each team)...
or just all day saturday as a different event like ron said
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jdubb
Sergeant
oh yeah
Posts: 490
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Post by jdubb on Oct 21, 2009 8:03:55 GMT -5
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Post by smittyrj78 on Oct 21, 2009 9:26:47 GMT -5
As I said before I am very much against raising the points above 1850. I think we will limit ourselves on the number of player we get if we go to 2k or above. I know that its only 150 more points but the average player out side our area doesn't have that many points. Also the game was designed to be balanced around 1500-1750 range. I'm not saying that we want to drop to that range just keep the points at where they are.
IF we do raise the minimum turn to 4 or 5 we can another 1/2hr to the games. I only had two games where I was close to the time limit but I didn't play any of the horde armies this weekend either.
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Post by inzeos on Oct 21, 2009 9:53:50 GMT -5
I wouldn't raise the turn limit unless we add additional time. The few times we did not get to turn 4 or 5 was when I was playing horde army's.
Regarding apocalypse;
I would run it as a stand alone event alongside the GT. I would restrict players to no more than 3,000 to 3,500 points each aligned as teams (presetup or setup on Friday evening?). There simply will not be enough time out side of the regular GT timed games to fit in a smoothly run apocalypse game.
I like the idea of having each side get a team captain and a timer on each table.
I think it would also be good to have a dedicated volunteer or two to over see the apocalypse play area.
From past experience playing apocalypse we should also insure plenty of side board space for models to be plucked from as casualties / left as reinforcements.
If people wanted to extend the apocalypse format into more of a team tourney, we could run a 3 game event.
Friday evening each team would fight it out using planet strike rules. Each player brings a modified list of 1,500 points to contribute to their over all team limit of 4,500 points.
Saturday day / evening each team would fight it out using apocalypse rules. Each player brings a full list of 3,500 points to contribute to their over all team limit of 10,500 points.
Sunday day each team would fight it out using apocalypse rules; however, due to casualties suffered the previous day can only field a maximum of 2,000 points for an over all team limit of 6,000 points.
You would probably need a minimum of 18 players to run this format. Maybe consider allowing two person teams.
Prize support could be something as simple as;
Best Commanders w/ runner up
Best Composition w/ runner up
Best Painted w/ runner up
Prizes would be awarded at the team level. Maybe each best level prize would be small items such as blisters, each member of the winning team gets something.
Then both Best and Runner Up prizes would include a nice DaBoyz Apocalypse GT 2010 certificate.
Maybe for those who don't win get a certificate for participating that says something like "DaBoyz Apocalypse GT 2010 - I got wrecked and rolled."
Food for thought...
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MajorSoB
Moderator 
The oldest
THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
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Post by MajorSoB on Oct 21, 2009 17:05:03 GMT -5
Great ideas about the Apocalypse game but the one thing I want to interject is that we want this to be kept very simple and not detract from the main event. I am not at all interested in turning it into a tournament style game but having it as a fun diversion to the main event. The same would go for Blood Bowl, Gothic, Space Hulk or whatever else we decide on the other night. With that in mind...
Regarding Apocalypse
1) I will review the house rules at BoLS. They generally post useful articles and I am sure we could incorporate their ideas into ours.
2) I want a player limit of no more that 1000-1250 points, that way the total points will not be so big that we cannot get through a game.
3) I like the idea of timers and limits to turns to keep that game moving.
4) Fun is to be emphasized in this game above anything else. Prizes should be based with that in mind.
Regarding DaBoyz GT 2010 40K Tourney
1) I see no reason to go any lower than 1850 points. If you read the many boards and forums most lists seem to be built at 1750 or 1850. Yes there are some larger and some smaller but I know most people are not interested in playing a game where they have to leave most of their fun and fluffy stuff at home cause they couldn't fit it in.
2) I would like to see the turn limit raised to 4 turns. Unless I am not hearing well, I didnt get any reports of people who couldnt finish 3 turns. 4 is not an unreasonable expectation and will keep horde players moving ( Remember that it is not at all bad for many horde armies to play slowly and with the incentive to finish you might be surprised just how quickly they can move. I once saw Hobin and Woodcock move like greased lightning playing Orks at the Harvard Hard Boyz tourney and they both are old men!)
3) Remember too that tournament players are different than players you may see at a store and vice versa. I cannot think of one person in our area that plays in tourneys who cannot field a 2000 point army. It is a year away, I am sure that anyone can paint anoother 150 points if that is what the point limit is set at. yes some of the Millennium kids only have 1000 or so points etc, but I didnt see anyone who seriously considered playing being unable to get enough models to do so. If they want to the Jolly Fat Man's Holiday in December, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and Ramalamadingdong can probably help them between now and them.
4) I want this tournament to remain ours and reflect what we as a group like about the hobby. I dont want it to be modeled after another tourney but something that is uniquely ours. It is important we take into account others but at the end of the day this tourney should reflect what we as DaBoyz like about this game.
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Post by Ranger Dude on Oct 21, 2009 18:13:14 GMT -5
My .02...
I like the idea of 2000. I really liked our last GT at 2150 since it allowed the fielding of some of the more unique options. I think 2000 is feasible and anyone who can't scrounge up the extra 150 between now and then needs to really consider their choice of hobby. Most armies can make that up just in wargear choices without any other purchases.
As for the Apocalypse game, I agree it should be run in the evening, so as not to detract from the main tourney. It's not like we don't have the hall for a long time. Yes, I realize Apoc games are long affairs, but there should be some way to work it out without interfering with the main GT. If we're so concerned about the numbers at one table, perhaps the idea of multiple tables isn't so bad. I think the prizes should encourage the fun in these rather than winning/losing. These are supposed to draw more people in, so make it as fun as possible.
I also like Doug's idea of a basket raffle. I have seen them work very successfully in a number of places. Do this for some of the prizes, and set up a few as door prizes that each person will have 1 chance at. (Entry tickets used for Door prizes. Bought tickets for Basket Raffle.)
I would also like to throw my hat in for at least one table. I am starting work on a modular table. I don't see any reason I won't complete a set of six sections (One table). I may finish more than that too depending on how things work out.
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Garou24
Chapter Master
Posts: 1,530
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Post by Garou24 on Oct 21, 2009 21:31:30 GMT -5
I would like to see the points per player increased for an apocalypse game, at least a little. I have a couple models who each cost over 1250 points for just one model. If we broke the game in to a couple tables I bet we coud get in 2 gamaes with larger points.
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Post by inzeos on Oct 22, 2009 7:59:41 GMT -5
I disagree about being able to get a game of apocalypse setup and completed in one evening. Just not feasible without skimping on the points and restricting people, which is just not in the spirit of what apocalypse is all about.
If you finish the regular GT at 5 PM and assume everyone isn't going to finish packing up until 5:30 PM. You would need at least a half hour or hour break for food if you can still find it on campus at that time. So then you start setting up at 6:30 PM. Apocalypse setup can easily take an hour. First dice if you're lucky are rolled at 7:30 PM. That leaves 3 hours until 10:30 PM, which is probably the witching hour for some folks who need to packup, drive to their hotels / homes / bar and still be able to get sleep before gaming the next day.
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