Millennium & Daboyz GT Comp question

[Catachan Colonel]

The kind of list i am thinking of takes about 40 firewarriors and maybe 3 crisis suits (one of which is the one you are required to take) will get you a list when back at my home computer.

[Horst]

I know its not the "typical" tau list... but he does some wierd things with it that seem to work. Like, surrounding a rhino I had near the edge with kroot, then assaulting it with a squad of commando fire warriors packing grenades... and killing the squad trapped inside ><

never again tommy... never again.

[travis]

Boy it's been a while since I have been on here but it's nice to see thing haven't changed. Jerry still trying to defend his play style, while everyone else tells him he's wrong. Steve H. agreeing and then disagreeing with both sides of the argument. Skyth trying to apply fantasy logic to 40k events, Ron asking him how many games he's played with the new rules and Doug telling him to hang out with the square basers. Shilkiligen or however its spelled attempting to be nice to everyone and finishing his post with Ave Imperium brother. Brian talking about being beaten with brooms and playing with greased pigs and of course Tommy telling why Tau should still be considered a legit army. So for those of you just tooning in that summarize the first 70 posts.
Here it is in a nut shell. People take there own time to put on tournaments so that player's can enjoy this hobby. If you don't like the way a tourney is run, don't play. Don't female dog about the event or the judges or the system. Save us a bunch of time and don't play. Negativity poisons a gaming community. If your going to show up and female dog, just stay home. You will not be missed.
I will take it one step further. If you want a tourney run a certain way and you think people want to play the way you want to, then organize one. Take the time to come up with a date, the place to play, the staff, the prize support and the time and do it yourself. GW has an open event policy, hell they will even put your event in a White dwarf if it's submitted 6 months in advance for free.
So if you think you have the best way to run an event, do it. I wish you well. If you get a solid draw I may run things the way you do. The reality of it from a community and business standpoint the masses aren't wrong. If I can get a happy gaming community involved with this game and every wants to play just 2500 points of all Necrons with no comp, I will do it. My experience thus far says differently though.
Netlists- Great for two reasons. 1. People who don't have the skill to come up with there own list for whatever reason. 2. People that are used to playing a themed/softer list that want to play and be competitive in an 'Ard Boyz style tourney without having to play the games that it takes to come to these lists.
The reality of this whole thing is this. Your going to play people that you like playing. If you don't have a problem getting a game wherever you play then you must be fun to play with and have a "fun" list. If you have a hard time finding opponents then maybe they are quietly telling you there's something wrong. Couple of options here. Do you smell? Do you act like a jerk when your losing? Do you act like a jerk when your winning? Maybe people are sick of playing your list. Either way we are here to make sure our opponent has as much fun as we do. If you only have fun when your winning, life may get tough for you at some point. Vince Lombardi said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser". No one likes to lose it's how you carry yourself in defeat that measure you as a person.
Look it's a game have some f*&king fun.

[Horst]

hell yea I agree with both sides of the argument ><

both are valid points and I'll play either way, with the same d**n list ><

[chumbalaya]

Travis, I have the utmost respect for anybody who can give us nerds a place to call home and maybe free stuff too. Please don't confuse my offering of a different perspective and some suggestions to improve events with me complaining, insulting, or being negative in any way. I'm just trying to foster discussion and see if we can't get a more well rounded view of the hobby as a whole.

I've pretty much addressed the other things you said because other people have already said them, and they weren't germane to the discussion either. Like I feel I've said a million times already, I don't want people to be jerks or anything, just have a good time and maybe try playing at a higher level. Playing a competitive army doesn't mean you can't still be a good sport and have fun playing, win or lose.

Net lists are a framework to build your army around. Like you said, only noobs and people looking to build a new army use them. No army runs on autopilot, and by the time you've figured out how the netlist plays, you'll make your own modifications to fit your preferences, and then it becomes your list.

If people have a problem with somebody's list being too good, maybe they should take a look at themselves before they start blaming their opponent. If you play for "fun" then it shouldn't matter how the game goes. I know I don't care if I win or lose, so long as it's a good time or good competition. Unless of course, you really want to win but don't want to improve your army or play so you drag other people down to your level, handicap them, or prop yourself up on crutches. That's how I see it when the whole "winning is for losers" mentality rears it's ugly head. Please note I'm not talking about anybody individually, it's more of a hypothetical jerkface I like yelling at

[Iron Warrior]

LOL Travis! Ive missed ya man, i got to stop into your store sometime and chat. Good to hear from you. And Your right, nothings changed.

Do you smell?

Baltimore 2004 (or 5) after an entire weekend of chicken wings, chili cheese dogs and subway, round 5, table 34. A day that will live in infamy. Yes, I smelled...and everyone knew it. But thanks to Rob Merle and some shiffty eyes on my part we were able to blame it on Robs opponent. A noxious gas eminaiting from the center table of the arena nearly cleared out the entire place as I cackled quietly into my fleece. I think I made my oppenent gag as he was rolling his dice. Morale of the story is...If you smell and you can blame it on someone else. Its ok!

[Catachan Colonel]

You know guys i think good points have been made by a lot of people.

I think any of our tournaments should reward sll aspects of the hobby be they painting or whatever. Even as chumbalaya wants "competitive play"

I think i dont wand to play Waac hammer or a$$hattery hammer or compless wonder beatdown hammer but i dont want to play "Pillow hammer" either

I think a compromise can be made lets have comp as part of our tournaments and even part of our best general awards. but at the same time so we encourage competitive play lets also include battle points in the scores so that the "competive players" will have no excuse. In fact just to throw a extra bone to the "competive players battle scores should be like at least half the points that you can earn at daboyz or elsewhere.

With both comp points and battle poins included than we cater to all sorts of players with the exclusion of the WAAC players who want no comp and the "pillowhammer" players who oviously want no battle points. and the honest "competitive players will have no complaints unless they are really actually WAAC players.

Including both is the only way to justify taking the time off and paying the cash. Hopefully we wont have to face off with to many alienated WAAC players or Pillowhammer players.

Everybody wins!

[chumbalaya]

Great, that's all I'm looking for.

[Ranger Dude]

Apr 21, 2010 15:21:19 GMT -5 chumbalaya said:

Great, that's all I'm looking for.

I think you missed the sarcasm. Tommy was basically describing what we already do and have been doing for quite some time. All the things you have been complaining about.

["LAST FREAK'N DRAGON"]

IF THE PEOPLE AT GW WERE GENERALS IN ANY CAPACITY
THEY MIGHT TRY PLAYING THE GAME AND BUILDING ARMY
LISTS BEFORE COUNTING THERE MONEY.

THAT WOULD ELIMINATE PAINFUL THREADS LIKE THIS ONE!

NEXT CHIMERA LIST ARMY I FACE WILL BE DIFFERENT
BECAUSE I WILL SIT OUT AND WATCH SOMEONE ELSE PLAY
MY ARMY, BUT WAIT! I'LL SELECT SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER
SEEN OR PLAYED THE GAME BEFORE.

NOW THAT'S WORTH THE ENTRANCE FEE!

CIAO!

[Iron Warrior]

I think you missed the sarcasm. Tommy was basically describing what we already do and have been doing for quite some time. All the things you have been complaining about.

Ding Ding Ding, give the man a prize!

[chumbalaya]

lol, way to fail me. That's what I get for assuming the best of people.

Anyway, I hope you're joking about that whole "this is what the event actually is" part too. There's nothing competitive about a popularity contest, which is all comp ends up being.

Rather than whine about a so-called uber list, you could try and get better. I'd be happy to help

[Garou24]

Apr 21, 2010 21:02:20 GMT -5 chumbalaya said:

lol, way to fail me. That's what I get for assuming the best of people.

Anyway, I hope you're joking about that whole "this is what the event actually is" part too. There's nothing competitive about a popularity contest, which is all comp ends up being.

Rather than whine about a so-called uber list, you could try and get better. I'd be happy to help

So wait.. Tommy broke down the basics of the DaBoyz GT into words you could understand. And After reading the description you agreed with the idea.

Then you found out that he was actually talking about what we have been trying to get across to you for the past 7 pages.... DaBoyz GT is not bring a super hard net list.. but also don't come with a super fluffy pillow list... just bring a strong "balanced" list.

And now that you realized you were agreeing with us.. you change your mind? Way to go.

And how is Comp a popularity contest? You read an army list and determine if the list was fair and blanced. Sounds pretty simple. I am sure you will reply with "Well people vote for their friends.. or that guy beat me so i will score his list lower etc" In the last GTs the judges were the ones handing out the majority of the comp score. As for people voting for their friends or knocking a person due to a loss.... Thats life buddy , sorry to burst your bubble. Its going to happen sometimes... and not just in GTs. Friend will hire their friends for a job, pass over someone for a promotion because they dislike them etc. Deal with it.
The best way to ensure that doesn't happen? Play legit and vote honestly. Most people do. And then you know you were the better man.

[skyth]

From some of the feedback (IE rabid piling on) about some middle of the road competetive lists I've seen here, saying you don't want pillow-hammer seems dishonest.

As for judges handing out comp scores...I've been to events and also heard about events where who you were could greatly affect your comp score when judges were handing out comp scores. Honestly, I would only really trust two of Daboyz (Shaun or Jay) to give me an honest comp score should I show up to an event.

[chumbalaya]

Then it appears we agree on a lot of things, which is why I find the vehement arguments odd. I, shock horror, want people to bring balanced armies, compete and enjoy their hobby as they like. Comp + BP doesn't pick the best general, just the fella who got lucky enough to game the system and get the best dice/matchups.

The less subjective scoring the closer you get to really having competition.

"Life isn't fair, deal with it" isn't a very compelling argument.