Iron Warrior
Moderator
The Iron
Iron Within! Iron Without!
Posts: 2,573
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Post by Iron Warrior on Dec 10, 2005 3:37:13 GMT -5
Orville, your disturbing.
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Post by dragons3 on Dec 20, 2005 15:30:43 GMT -5
IF YOU SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON AN ARMY THAT YOUR BOARD TO DEATH WITH EVERY TIME YOU PLAY THEM, AND FLUFF IS THE ONLY THING THAT KEEPS YOU PLAYING. THEN PLAY THE FLUFF ! DON'T GET FLUFFED UP FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE LUXURY OF OWNING MULTIPLE ARMIES WHO CAN SWITCH BACK AND FORTH LIKE MY SELF.
TAU AREN'T THAT EXCITING, NECRONS ARE DOG'S UNDER 1500 pts. ect.... (JUST A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW) P.S. ALL MY CHALLENGES SPECIFY NO SPECIAL CHARACTERS BECAUSE OF FLUFF, OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T CARE IF IT'S IN YOUR CODEX THEN USE IT
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Post by Ranger Dude on Dec 20, 2005 17:53:16 GMT -5
Finally got around to looking through the board.
As mentioned by many, Cheese is a matter of opinion. Personally, most of my armies are built to a theme. I'm sure someone out there feels that they are cheesy, but it's my theme. Their opinion.
As for wether or not thisgroup is tending towards powergaming, I think it has to do with the level of skill here. I have to say that in college, my oponenets weren't nearly as skilled as they are here. Mind you, neither was I. I'm still no great shakes at tactics, but I am improving steadily. I don't get hosed nearly as often as I did when I first started gaming with you guys. But since my main drive is the painting and modeling, being crushed doesn't tend to bother me as long as the game was fun. As I said, many of the players here are very good at this game. In order to compete with each other, power gaming tends to slip in. Iam actally impressed at how controlled it is. Do we power game? Sure. Do we let it control us and min max our way to the most powerful army? Not really. Just about every army I've seen among us has had some theme or other. We all seem to have an attachment to the fluff as well as to winning. Controlled power gaming isn't all that bad. It's when it get's out of hand that it is a problem.
Just my 2 cents, and I'm sure there will be more discussion anyway.
Gabe
Just in case you couldn't figure out who it was.
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Post by Goldeagle on Dec 21, 2005 10:01:21 GMT -5
Well said Gabe!
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Post by dragons3 on Dec 21, 2005 11:47:14 GMT -5
THE RESPONSE TO 40% TROOPS vs FLUFF HAS REALLY TAKEN OFF, THIS IS GREAT. WITH THIS AMOUNT OF INTEREST, WE SHOULD HAVE A FLUFF TOURNAMENT.
MANDATORY: 2 HQ's MAXIMUM TROOP SELECTION: 2 SQUADS MANDATORY: 3 ELITES OPTIONAL: HEAVY SUPPORT 0-3 UNITS TOTAL POINTS: 1500 ALL GAMES HAVE INFILTRATE & DEEP STRIKE. BONUS POINTS FOR KILLING THE FLUFFED GUYS.
THE WINNER RECEIVES THE TITLE: KING OF FLUFF!
IF FLUFF WASN'T A BIG DEAL, THEN WHY DOSE ALMOST EVERYBODY RUN OUT TO BUY EVERY NEW ARMY CODEX THAT COMES DOWN THE ROAD? ANSWER: FOR THE NEW FLUFF, NOT STUFF. YA, I KNOW YOU NEED IT TO PLAY THE GAME!
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MajorSoB
Moderator
The oldest
THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
Posts: 2,135
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Post by MajorSoB on Dec 21, 2005 12:19:20 GMT -5
Dragon, I like the idea of a tounament where you are rated higher on your fluff, but I don't agree with your proposed format. I don't see how 2HQ's is necessarally fluffly, 3 manditory elites would encourage Ron to bring out the Oblit's ( I know he wouldn't but it would lead him in that direction). Maxiumum troops 2 selections? Troops are what leads the army to be fluffy in my opinion. The rules you propose for this tourney would lead more to powergaming, since if you min-max you troops you can cram a whole lot of powerful crap in your list. I can see it now...
Tommy's Ultras- Marnus Calgar with a huge tooled up command squad with Ultra elite guard, Tygurius in a Rhino, 3 landspeeders with assault cannons, two 5 man scout squads (leaving a whole lot of room for more doom), etc
Ron's IW's- 3 sqauds of 3 Oblits (and I couldn't fault him since heavies may not be an option in your rules)
I think this is what we are trying to get away from. Both these lists are fluffy but not alot of fun to get beaten off the table by.
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MajorSoB
Moderator
The oldest
THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
Posts: 2,135
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Post by MajorSoB on Dec 21, 2005 12:26:31 GMT -5
To Tommy...
Saturday we had the conversation that 40% troops doesn't hose anyone. Explain this list then, its 60% or more troops...
Lord with MOS, on a bike with personal icon, d strength, d mutation, combat drugs, lightning claws, doom siren, sorcerer with 6 minor powers
Lieutenent with MOS on a bike with personal icon, d strength, d mutation, lightning claws, combat drugs, doom siren, sorverer with 6 minor powers
12 daemonettes 12 daemonettes 12 daemonettes 12 daemonettes 12 daemonettes
6 daemonettes on steeds 6 daemonettes on steeds 6 daemonettes on steeds
Does it sound like a fair list to play, after all it is mostly troops?
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McCommander
Sergeant
The Dreamiest
For every one that falls, two shall take his place!
Posts: 209
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Post by McCommander on Dec 21, 2005 13:09:57 GMT -5
Just to make an extra point. This list (shown above) is another reason why fluff doesn't solve the power gaming problem. For instance I take the army listed above and call it The Demonic Sisters of Lust, model them all as females, write down a little history, make it all pretty like, and suddenly this list is fluffy as Hell! Personal interpretation goes a long way.
I would think more general guidelines might be a better idea:
1) No army unit choice may be used more than twice, unless you have used up all your aval. choices.
2) No unit choice may exceed 350 points (transport not included) Exception, if army selection includes multiple units. ie... Platoons
3) HQ units may exceed 350pts., up to 500pts, if the HQ is a retinue. (transport not included)
4) No more than 60% of your pts. may be spent in anyone area. ie ... troops, fast attack, Hq...
Just a thought.... These things as a standard should limit some of the over the top armies. Most of the normal armies that we play now follow all these rules.
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Post by dragons3 on Dec 21, 2005 14:34:23 GMT -5
FLUFF IS DIFFERENT FOR EACH ARMY NOT NECESSARILY TROOPS, FLUFF TO ME IS A CARNIFEX WITH 5 WOUNDS AND GETS A REGENERATE D6 ROLL FOR EACH WOUND TAKEN AT THE BEGINNING OF EACH TURN, AND ON A 6 GETS A WOUND BACK. FLUFF TO ME IS BIG GUYS THAT WON'T DIE, OR AN ARMOUR COMPANY COMMISSAR IN A LEMAN RUSS or 2 NECRON LORDS WITH DESTROYER BODIES & PHYLACTERY with WARSCYTHE WEAPONS. EACH ARMY SHOULD BE MAXIMIZED IN FLUFF with AND EACH GAME SHOULD END WITH COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF YOUR OPPONENT.
AND NOW THE GOOD PART! YOUR ARMY LIST SHOULD HAVE INSTRUCTIONS ON WHAT & HOW TO PLAY ALL CHARACTERS AND UNIT SELECTIONS. ALL PLAYERS PLACE THEIR ARMY LISTS IN A BOX. EVERY ONE PULLS OUT A DIFFERENT ARMY TO PLAY OTHER THAN THEIR OWN EACH ROUND.
JUST TURNING THE POT, NOT TRYING TO DRIFT TO FAR OFF TOPIC, NEW IDEAS MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY MORE.
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Hagbard The Mighty
Sergeant
The cheesiest
In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
Posts: 223
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Dec 21, 2005 14:39:03 GMT -5
You have an unusal opinion of fluff. Are you sure you dont mean cheese?
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Dec 21, 2005 15:08:33 GMT -5
Dad, just so ya know, that army would suck because you only have 2 icons! And their even charactors! They dont have aura!!! LASCANNONS!!! Its like your army! Where did the webway go?!?!?!
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Post by shaun on Dec 21, 2005 15:27:13 GMT -5
Ok, you just lost padewan status. You need to think before you speak. There are several ways that make the deamonic aura not necessary. Lets see if you can come up with any.....................
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Post by Norton on Dec 21, 2005 16:07:09 GMT -5
Shut up brian.
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Dec 21, 2005 17:15:59 GMT -5
Reply to Doug.
You ask if a requirement of 40% troops hoses that list. I would have to say no you have a potentailly killer list while having 40% troops.
Are you asking if 40% troops makes it fair and fun i would have to say no but i never said that 40% troops is the only requirement of good comp.
Hate to agree with brian here but this list is fairly easy to beat you have only 5 T5 3+save wounds to kill in 1 round if you kill those two round 1 (possible in about all armies i can think of.) Than you win.
Get the demonettes and pick an opponent army and i will beat this list with a good and ballanced list.
I will have to come up with a monster comp sheet to use at a coming tourney. I will defend that it does not screw any army. (It may screw the model selection that you choose, but not the army you could choose)
And Brian remember the words on the front page that say intelligent questions only apply through out the board! It is very ovious where these two get their invulnerable saves and they are better half the time than a respectable 5+ invun
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Dec 21, 2005 17:18:57 GMT -5
Hey Doug... I but Courtney would be glad to play against you with his genestealer army... It would be an incredibly fun game... for him.
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