MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Feb 14, 2006 12:38:55 GMT -5
Syracuse has responded with their suggestion on how we handle the rules for our challenge between our two clubs. How would you like the rules to be created for this outing?
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Post by ccourtney on Feb 14, 2006 13:58:20 GMT -5
I have to say that the worst tourneys I've ever gone too are ones without soft scores. It's such a let down when the guys who win it are the biggest jerks to play, have unpainted / poorly painted armies that have no theme short of win at all costs. There are plenty of games out there for those types of players to play. If you don't want to paint; play a game that comes with pre-painted minis / magic / or MMO's. If you don't want to have any restrictions on how you play (you want to be a jerk with a un-themed army) those games are for you too.
I have to agree that sportsmanship is hard to police and make fair. Painting and comp is very easy however if you have a set of guidelines for the score. Better yet have a dedicated judge for these scores. I understand the difficulties in the sportsmanship scoring and have no problem if that is left out of the tourney. There is however no excuse for not having a score in painting and comp.
I'm not saying don't let the players without painted armies play, but it's a real kick in the nads to a player who takes a ton of time to paint his army (to make the game more enjoyable both players) and goes out of his way to make a fun themed army (also to make the game more enjoyable) and then gets ranked lower than a guy who just shows to kick ass at all costs. (he can stay home and kick puppies.)
Anyone who has been to a GT and played one of these players will understand. It's always great to see the results at the end when those players are ranked overall low even after destroying all their opponents. And the guys with the nice painted themed army's that won on overall hobby skills.
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Post by Ranger Dude on Feb 14, 2006 14:20:26 GMT -5
I happen to agree with Chris. I think too many people forget that this is more than a game, but a whole hobby. Painting and modelling are a big part of what we do. Comp too really since it is how we put our armies together that shows the kind of players we are.
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Hagbard The Mighty
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The cheesiest
In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Feb 14, 2006 14:20:42 GMT -5
I have to agree with Courtney. I know my painting skills fall short compared to most of da boyz, but I took a lot of time to find a theme I liked and have realy enjoyed carrying it throughout my army. I have a few models that I am very proud of. I want that figured in when I play in a tourney.
I don't think the original challenge between 'Cuse and Da Boys (oh, excuse me - DD and Da Boyz) was just about who could bring the biggest beat down. It was who brought the better team. Comp and painting are huge parts of determining that.
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Sanguinary
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WOW, his son looks strangely like Shaun,
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Post by Sanguinary on Feb 14, 2006 14:40:38 GMT -5
Yep. I suck at painting, but I keep trying and without everyone here to help me along I would not have a d**n thing painted. As stated before this is more than just my army beats your army on the table. As crappy as my painting is I want that to be part of my score at the end.
Without soft scores this will seriously turn into the list I posted on Syracuse's website as a joke... This is a list I would never play, but its pretty funny.
2000 Pts - Blood Angels Roster - Unnamed
1 Captain @ 67 Pts Bolt Pistol (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x1) 1 Melta Bombs @ [5] Pts
3 Land Speeder Squadron @ 240 Pts Heavy Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon (x3)
3 Land Speeder Squadron @ 240 Pts Heavy Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon (x3)
3 Land Speeder Squadron @ 240 Pts Heavy Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon (x3)
4 Terminator Squad @ 240 Pts Storm Bolter (x2); Power Fist (x4); Assault Cannon (x2) 1 Sergeant @ [40] Pts
4 Terminator Squad @ 240 Pts Storm Bolter (x2); Power Fist (x4); Assault Cannon (x2) 1 Sergeant @ [40] Pts
4 Terminator Squad @ 240 Pts Storm Bolter (x2); Power Fist (x4); Assault Cannon (x2) 1 Sergeant @ [40] Pts
1 Predator Baal @ 120 Pts Twin-Linked Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter (x2)
1 Predator Baal @ 120 Pts Twin-Linked Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter (x2)
1 Predator Baal @ 120 Pts Twin-Linked Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter (x2)
4 Scout Squad @ 65 Pts Bolt Pistol & CCW (x4) 1 Sergeant @ [13] Pts Bolt Pistol & CCW
4 Blood Angels Scout Squad @ 65 Pts Bolt Pistol & CCW (x4) 1 Sergeant @ [13] Pts Bolt Pistol & CCW
Total Roster Cost: 1997
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Feb 14, 2006 16:08:46 GMT -5
...And Ron calls me a cheesy git!
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Feb 14, 2006 16:39:27 GMT -5
...And Ron calls me a cheesy git! You're worse, because you bring the cheese then lose with it as well!!!!!!
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Post by Brinan The Barbarian on Feb 14, 2006 17:26:39 GMT -5
I did better than you at the den.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Feb 14, 2006 18:04:06 GMT -5
You also had more cheese than a Wisconsin dairy too!
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Sanguinary
Sergeant
WOW, his son looks strangely like Shaun,
Posts: 341
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Post by Sanguinary on Feb 14, 2006 18:08:44 GMT -5
Stay focused... You guys are Thread hijacking...
GO Paint and get your army ready!!!! Thats more for Brian than you Doug.
BTW - SHUT UP BRIAN!!!!
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Feb 14, 2006 19:17:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the kick in the butt Mike.
I tried to word this so my bias did not come through but it seems we are united on what is fun and what we think of burly, warped, unpainted armies and their place in tournaments. I plan on letting this thread go for a few days to see if any other opinions emerge, but I highly doubt it. Courtney echoed my sentiments perfectly. I have been to enough tourneys and seen enough bad unfluffy armies. Painting and comp should be judged fairly, while sometimes that is a problem it is not an excuse for totally excluding it. I could see making some sort of consession for a few players if they are new and do not have a painted army, either that or extend the date for the tourney so some of the paintingly challenged people can slap a few coats on their models. At this point though I don't see any support for playing tooled out armies and I will communicate this to Farseer Prince.
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Post by dragons3 on Feb 14, 2006 20:27:57 GMT -5
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Post by tripp on Feb 15, 2006 10:15:33 GMT -5
There is paint, but a fully painted army != some paint here and there. The fully painted/based requirement will force some people to not play. If it is just a score that is tied into the overall, rock on but if it is a requirement we lose a lot of players.
If you add too much time then our captain and I are going to be gone since both of us leave sometime toward the end of the summer for parts away from the cuse.
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Post by Ranger Dude on Feb 15, 2006 13:53:22 GMT -5
You have a better idea of how your guys paint. If you check my post in the other list, you will see that the painting would be incorporated, not a requirement. As for adding time, I only suggested it to give your guys some time to get their armies up to snuff. I wouldn't add too much time since this shouldn't take that long. personally, I think end of April should be plenty of time.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Feb 20, 2006 5:55:56 GMT -5
This is the counter proposal sent to me. Personally, I like it, see what you think... Doug, Here is the new tourney proposal that The Double Deuce members approved today. I trust that this format will rectify the difficulties expressed by daboys with the previous attempt; it is basically a slightly modified version of the 2006 GT. I talked to Terry yesterday and he OKed GW Syracuse hosting the tourney. He is also willing to be the "outside" person responsible for scoring "Force Painting & Selection/character" as outlined in the 2006 GT materials. The proposal is as follows: 1. Three rounds 2. Point value: 1850 3. An errata/FAQ thread will be created on the main Syracuse board for the creation of "House Rules" for the tourney. This is an attempt to resolve acknowledged gray areas in the rules prior to the tourney. 4. Set round missions: Round 1 - Cleanse, Gamma Round 2 - Secure and Control, Omega Round 3 - Recon, Gamma 5. Standard tourney round pairings: 1st round random; 2nd and 3rd pairings based on similar records. Opponents will be from different teams, and any two opponents will not be matched twice. 6. Tourney scoring and armies allowed follows 2006 Grand Tournament outline: gamesday.us.games-workshop.com/GamesDay2006/assets/Marinehammer_GT_Rulespack_2006.pdfOnly minimal adjustments are required to this format. First is the multiplication of generalship score by 5/3 to adjust for the discrepancy between a 5 vs. a 3 round tourney. Round scoring is based on 1850 pts. instead of 1500 pts., therefore; Draw - plus/minus 185 victory pts. difference - 10 pts. each player Marginal victory - 186 to 925 victory pts. difference - 13 pts. winner, 7 pts. loser Major victory - 926 to 1480 victory pts. difference - 17 pts. winner, 3 pts. loser Victorious Slaughter - 1481 plus victory pts. difference - 20 pts. winner, 0 pts. loser. Theoretical total possible per player - 60 pts. (once again, this is multiplied by 5/3 to achieve the 100 pts. stated in the GT outline) Terry L. from GW Syracuse will be the person responsible for assessment of "Force Painting & Selection/character." 7. A grievance committee constructed of Terry L. and a member of each team will be present to assist in the resolution in any conflicts that may arise during the tourney. 8. Outcome of Tourney: Values for each player summed for each team. Team with greater total points wins tourney. Once again, I do not foresee any problems with this format: if it's good enough for a GT it should be good enough for our little shindig. On a side note, I discussed dates for the tourney with Terry when I saw him yesterday. Ultimately, this is something that the three of us will need to discuss/pm together. While the last weekend of the month initially looked OK for us, it now presents a problem for some of our players. This may require us to push the date back to the beginning of May. That's all I got for now. I look forward to your's and daboys' response. Chris N.
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