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Post by lordnurgle on Feb 25, 2013 22:09:40 GMT -5
13 pictures of boards for tournaments that i attended all of. My armies dont make a single picture. I think A-A-rons still angry about his knights getting beaten up by my sisters!!!!
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
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Post by sinistermind on Feb 25, 2013 22:22:04 GMT -5
I agree with Craig! MG and TO's can't be doing a bad job if it attracts people from where it does... I should be making it to most of the rest of this years monthly events!!! And my chaos (mostly what I'll be running) will be painted
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Feb 26, 2013 15:17:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry that I didn't have time to properly respond yesterday. Some things are more important that these pointless discussions. Anyways I have time now so here goes. You know I began this post to see where everyone was at and to point out that once again we have conflict in dates for tournaments that many people may have played in both if they were scheduled properly. Yes I pointed out what the deciding factors for me were to show you how I reached a conclusion but as usual if you say anything to this group that they don't agree with they immediately attack you and start defending their myopic views as being gospel. Here's the deal, and I will repeat this for all the slow learners out there, I pointed out that Smitty and Boldo run decent tournaments and thanked them for that BUT I also was trying to point out their shortcomings as well. You can speculate as to my motives and regardless what I may say you have your opinions so keep them. These facts remain. While 40K sales continue on this group has done very little to attract new players. It's run like a good old boys club where new players are often ignored ( especially when they post on this board for a game or advice ) and rarely come back to events after the beatings they receive. Many of the former players that used to attend events regularly equate playing in one of the current local events with a trip to the dentist or doing their taxes when they know they owe. So tell me all these new players? The Buffalo guys? They come because there is no place locally that runs events. Who else is new? It's the same guys over the same months playing their same lists. Yes there is spam in them, or maybe better said they are often optimized to the point where they are not much fun to play against, especially for someone learning the game. Here to address some attacks: Terrain- I have offered to bring mine and have on several occasions. The last few times however I have shown up with few tables worth and been told that it wasn't needed, and the same old boards had already been preset. It's a pain in the butt to carry out all my terrain when it never used. Often tournaments fall two or three hours after I finish work and I am a bit tired to say the least BUT I am more than willing to bring as much terrain as I have IF it will be used. Like terrain everywhere mine does need to be reworked and added to in order to accommodate some of the newer elements that 6th edition offers and I would be glad to do that IF there was some sort of attempt to use it rather that discourage it. This community is very closed minded, and when 6th edition hit nearly everyone here jumped on the internet bandwagon that wanted to ban certain fortifications and terrain. The one exception was MechaniCon who embraced the new terrain and actually built pieces for their tournament to represent most types that the book offered. If you dispute this look it up, the TO posted all this information here. What I am saying is that this sounds like a better game than what we offer. And to you Aaron out of "hundreds" of photos you took you posted the best ones that illustrate your point. At the January event, once again the pipe board was there, so was the Gale Force Nine cliff board that while it looks good pretty much sucks to play on. Even the boards you posted have terrain with similar height and similar saves. Where any of the elements played as mysterious, of course not and you know it. Instead of trying to disprove why opinion, how is your event coming, remember the one you agreed to run? I told you I would help yet you once again did not contact me but had enough time to go off on another one of your rants. Again what are the dates and what were you thinking about? Its been over 5 months... Scoring- Like I said posting results and how they were derived would be good AND I have requested this to the people involved on multiple occasions. Transparency is a good thing. It would be refreshing to see an outline before each event of the scoring, possible missions and results for everyone afterwards, not just the usual posts of "Who won?" ...."Derp, I think it was XXXX, not sure who came in second, screw everyone else..." Armies and Comp- My point was that their often is little attention to anything other than how they play. My point was also that I can predict who will bring what and that FOR MY PERSPECTIVE part of the fun of tournaments is seeing something new and different or at the very least some variety. I brought different armies and different lists to every event that I attended last year I believe only repeating my Sisters twice ( one Millennium event and Simcon ) as well as the Grey Knights twice. I am not saying everyone need to do this but if you can't change it up a little instead of bringing your old standby lists. Yeah Aaron I know, blah, blah, blah, you do have some nice armies and you do this, it wasn't directed at you so don't get your panties is a wad. And lastly FYI, "one of each" does not denote good comp especially when your choices are superior to others. Just because you lemmings think that doesn't make it correct. If I build my death stars by maxing out the best choices, ignoring the mediocre with only a bare minimum inclusion of the other units does not mean its good comp because of variety. It never has and it never will. Painting- Yes we need to represent the entire hobby again. Maybe we need to have a hard three colors requirement each month or every other month again. And before your start attacking me remember I ran that last painting clinic with Joe ( remember the other guy who wanted painting? ) last year where no one attended. You want to throw the whole DaBoyz title around, well DaBoyz used to represent guys who played well and embraced the whole hobby. Courtney ( you know the guy who everyone pulls out when they discuss "One of" comp ) was featured in White Dwarf and other GW publications because of his painting. Now that Joe has left which one of you does anything? Yeah Aaron, sit down, we all know, I'm not talking to you, and this isn't a comment on you Kevin either, I like the new additions to your Chaos Space Marines but my god we have more "bought and paid for" painted armies or ones that resemble the companions to Boldo's terrain at events now that we do completed ones. Tournaments used to represent a high point of the hobby not a just a saturday event to dig out some hastily assembled and maybe primed models thrown together and moved about a board. The point here is that we could do much more to encourage the hobby as a whole within our community and at local events. Missions- Play them all, period. There are six listed in the book, not four. Again I pointed out good things that I liked in case you missed that as well. Millennium offers a clean well run environment that is very attractive on many levels. Good parking, reasonable fees, a clean store, and good location. I also enjoy their staff and like playing their but just because I have asked for improvement does not mean I do not appreciate what is offered either. Don't make this into an attack on Millennium or Boldo or anyone else because it isn't, it is a request for improvement. This community could do better. Judging by the local attendance at last November DaBoyz tourney how many local guys played??? Five maybe six and two of them were comped just to get some local representation. Does this represent the local community as a whole and are you happy with these results? You all jumped on this post but the one asking for information on the second DaBoyz event, you know the one that your promised twice a year went without response. We do a lousy job of organizing and advertising events that is the point. Hey do what you want but there is room for improvement and if you can't see that you are blind. Like I have said time and time again, I am willing to help but in order to get my help and that of others you have to want to improve and want to change. Judging by the ten or so replies here you are happy with your results and you represent the greater Rochester 40K community perfectly.
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Post by chaoscraig on Feb 26, 2013 18:50:12 GMT -5
why dont we do a terrain building lock-in? ill bring polystyrene and we can go nuts. entry could be supplies and we could give somthing out for best piece in a couple catagories or somthin.
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sinistermind
Sergeant
Dice, the perfect example of a love/hate relationship
Posts: 315
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Post by sinistermind on Feb 26, 2013 20:33:43 GMT -5
After I finish painting what i have for chaos i was planning on using the metric ton of pink poly-foam to make a table at my house, I'm sure i would have enough left over to come up with a set of varied terrain with a colored mat to donate to MG..i cant control whether people will use mysterious terrain rules with it but I'll make sure its varied greatly enough too but still cohesive, if you have any suggestions for the set i will make I'd be all ears!!
I agree painted armies should be the norm, i have been one bringing primed/hastily painted models but this year instead of starting a new army i will be painting everything I own starting with chaos. Although i do not see buying/commissioning painted armies as any less valid, it just should come with ball busting and DQ from paint specific rewards
As far as lists i do not think i have ever brought the same list nor are they optimized", not even relatively..i don't really notice a power gaming trend in any of the usual attendants i see when i go
As far as missions, and scoring i do not have a problem with how things are run
My opinion as it concerns me anyways...
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MajorSoB
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THE GRUMPY OLD MAN!
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Post by MajorSoB on Feb 26, 2013 23:45:02 GMT -5
Thank you Craig and thank you Sinister.
I have reworked, re glued and repainted the terrain at Millennium twice at the same amount of times at Boldo's as well. I am willing to do round three for both but I do not want to be the only one doing it either. While I think adding good quality pink foam terrain will help, I also believe that we could upgrade and expand into several other areas of the terrain sections as well. How about this, maybe we could run an event later in the year where bringing and/or donating terrain was part of the requirement for entry and scoring? Maybe each player would have to bring a different style of terrain with him like impassible terrain, an archeotech, lava fields or some other type of lethal terrain, and ammo dump, etc and these pieces would be scattered about the tables and actually used the way they are described in the main rule book? Maybe a prize for best terrain piece and some sort of incentive to donate a quality piece to the store for continued use in future events? I think it's an idea worth exploring...
One last thing that Sinister touched on that I will mention briefly. If you want to discuss them further I think we should start a new thread. Purchased painted armies and commission work serves a purpose but should not ever be scored the same way as someone who took their own time to paint their army. They should never be scored the same way as someone who did the work themselves.
Thank you for the positive suggestions. Keep them coming.
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Post by chaoscraig on Feb 27, 2013 7:51:40 GMT -5
i like that idea too
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Post by lordnurgle on Feb 27, 2013 19:39:55 GMT -5
I do have to say. Terrain is my least favorite part of the hobby by so far its rediculous. I have city fight terrain I put together when a friend and I split the big box together when it came out all those years ago. its barely basecoated. it's the bane of my man place. unfinished terrain.
About terrain at tournies I do have to say, I started playing back when GW ran the big GTs in the 90's. Every table was wood and looked awesome. the top 5 tables or so were fixed terrain masterpieces. the kind of things you see in the ruleboooks. GW used to bring big box trucks of boards. The first time I went to adepticon ('06) I was amazed that they used cloth for the tables. I'm personally not a fan of cloth, with it moving and sometimes getting wrinkled, but what can you do, it's the way it is nowadays.
As for the tables in the local scene. I dont play at boldos enough for that to get flat. the stuff at millenium is pretty nice and with the terrain others bring i dont play on the same board very often. Pipe board maybe once every 4 months, same with forrest board with the aqaurium trees you can hid in the trunks of, same thing. . Heck at Running gagg, i was on the same board all 3 games. we used all 3 deployments so the terrain basically "moved" because of where our deployment zones were.
Scoring wise, every month I ask smitty where all the beef and wing guys placed, so that way we have our own team bragging rights and such.
There was talk of the Relic mission. Im not the biggest fan of it, but it really depends on the scoring of the tourney. When we were at boldos a couple months ago we were using VP scored in the games , I came into the final game againgst Chris P both of us undefeated. with VPs and soft scores i was 2 points behind him. then the mission is Relic. Thats a 3 point primary mission. all he needs is first blood to basically put it away. If it's a tourney where there is set points for win/lose/tie it's not such a big deal. Though it will be pretty awesome when belial can precision stirke onto it 1st turn with a deathwing squad!
And for mysterious terrain or whatever. I know how we still forget mysteriuos objectives, that might be a little rough. though if the terrain is made, I would suggest writing on the bottom of the terrain, what it is. by that I mean the exact term used in the book.I remember one place i used to play would write stuff like "difficult terrain, 4+ save" on the bottom of rock outcrops
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Post by travis on Mar 4, 2013 14:56:17 GMT -5
Pros: You live the greater Rochester area and have two great options for events to attend this Saturday.
Cons: Some player's attitudes towards events makes organizers question why they bother.
What exactly was the point of the initial post here? That's rhetorical. I truly don't want an answer. I am sure like most posts I would just hit it with TLDR.
There are unmanned bridges everywhere. Please troll there.
I didn't think it was possible for someone to be as destructive/counter productive to the game and it's community, as the company that produces it. Boy was I wrong.
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Post by brianhorton on Mar 4, 2013 17:16:14 GMT -5
Travis with The last line of the above comment I could not agree more.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Mar 5, 2013 14:33:40 GMT -5
Cons: Some player's attitudes towards events makes organizers question why they bother. You bother because there's a lot of people who actually appreciate a clean, spacious venue where they can enjoy 3 quality games against enjoyable opponents in one day. There are people who appreciate playing on painted, themed terrain instead of cardboard boxes and paper towel rolls. There are people that appreciate your prize support monthly is triple that of your peers. How many other non-GT events can boast drawing players from buffalo, syracuse, erie, and binghampton on a regular basis? Obviously many people appreciate what you do. Don't let the vocal minority make you second guess yourself.
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Post by fishboy on Mar 5, 2013 15:18:58 GMT -5
Stay away for a few months and...well... Next time I pull up this forum I am bringing Popcorn You guys are lucky. Down here in GA most of the stores have closed and I cant even find stuff for my daughters Star Wars game that I got her into just before we left. Be thankful for what you have.
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Iron Warrior
Moderator
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Iron Within! Iron Without!
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Post by Iron Warrior on Mar 5, 2013 16:38:47 GMT -5
That vocal minority used to be a vocal majority in the past. And just because someone doesn't take time to speak out against what they feel is wrong or incorrect or would like to see changed does not make them apart of the minority. I think you would be surprised how many people are out there that play 40k that don't go to the tournament scene.
Perhaps instead of pointing fingers you should ask yourselves why have these people left?
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Post by teecypher on Mar 5, 2013 20:15:18 GMT -5
people dont play at stores because.
1.) they may not have one or a means to get to one out of town.
2.) there store is run by a jerk who cares more about magic the gathering and keeps canceling tournaments.
3.) Tournaments are competitive some people cant have fun when its so competitive others love it more.
4.) painting, the game has a stigma from the gw days of everything needing to be painted some people dont want to paint or feel they dont have the skill to paint well enough.
those are the main reasons i have 3 friends that play 40k but wont play at stores because of the competition no one likes getting tabled every time they play. Whereas a more competitive player would strive to become better and improve others just give up. So your never going to make everyone happy all the time so stop trying just keep doing it and the people who want to be there will be and have been . * On a side note id like to thank travis , and the guys at the daboyz, and the other players aaron , chris p , kevin to name a few on behalf of the Beef and wing buffalo group we love all you guys and its the highlight of my month to come visit you all and get my ass thunder stomped on a regular basis.
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pogysnacks
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Post by pogysnacks on Mar 11, 2013 9:04:03 GMT -5
I'm gonna have to revive this post to make a point..settle on a specific genre so to speak of the game: comp or no comp, don't practice for a national tournament unless the vast majority is all for it, and work on improving your player base..invite people to a game Tuesday nights, start a campaign, play apoc occasionally, draw people in stay consistent, but Add in the right amount of variety..random objectives should be standard or at least thought about in relation to a battle in tournaments... Also be grateful you have such a large following where you are, Millenium is awesome, great staff w an owner that busts his ass to constantly try and improve and provide a great atmosphere...boldo is a bit odd and maybe has his own way but again at least it's another place to throw dice. We have 2 places near base down here, the hobbit, worse run tournaments I've ever been too run by someone who's never played 40k, surrounded by larpers and cigarettes All d**n day..or Gamers Guild with all 4 of the tables they have.. To get into a decent tournament I have to drive between an hr-3hrs just to play 11th Co events or something remotely close Want forum etiquette sign up for 11th co. Freeforums, fantastic community all about the game and the love for it and the encompassing hobby..there will always be something unbalanced and there will always be opinions on everything, play the game RAW and do your thing as a group like you did when more people showed up monthly, quit the fighting to for constructive criticism and ride off into the sunset w your plastic soldiers. For the record, no offense either, why does anyone complain about the meta up there? It's nowhere near as WAAC as it is w 11th Co and the Nova crowd..really I played up there for years, you guys all like fluff, composition, and painting, if anyone thinks (from the lists I've seen) that any of you are min/maxing they're horribly wrong. 1 love
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