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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 24, 2006 16:39:19 GMT -5
The rules don't clarify things very well.
the best argument I can put together from the BBB is that you get a d6 roll for each glancing/penetrating hit and then you look up the results on the table.
Rolling for the results one at a time make no sense whatsoever.
Why?
Am I going to shoot my pred with 3 lascannons at a tank and say WAIT! I might blow up the tank with the first lascannon.. so don't shoot until you see if I did it or not.
Or would you shoot all 3 las cannons so you could blow the nuts out of it?
In addition, there is a special note in the BBB that says Stunned and Shaken results are not cumulative. I don't see any such note by the destroyed, explodes or annihilated results.
My question is would the vehicle explode for each time the pen 6 is rolled or would it just be removed after the first one.
I do have to agree with one thing though... there is absolutely no suppord for rolling 2d6 and taking the highest for the radius
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 24, 2006 16:49:00 GMT -5
Absolutely. The vehicle is destroyed why press the matter further? You cannot destroy something again.
Once a vehicle is destroyed there is not further results that you can apply. (This will answer the rest of your questions)
Like I said, you cannot shoot at wrecks in hopes of getting them to explode.
This just sounds assinine: here I blew up your land raider on a glance six (my first roll) but on my 3rd roll I pened six you...so after you lose your 265 land raider and 3 Marines die from inside, Im now going to be an @ss and take the pen 6 and roll to see if I can kill more of your troops standing near it because I Need to kill more this round. (BTW the above is not the correct way of doing this)
This is unsportsman like. This is not playing by the rules this is someone trying to bend them until they break for a really trivial situation. If you need to ever try to use this scenario you've probably already lost the game anyways.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 24, 2006 16:59:44 GMT -5
This:
Would support that you can only destroy the vehicle once (ever) Since you only roll once.
BTW if you READ my post I said the only thing you roll seperat would the the reasults not the actuall shooting at the vehicle.
Why? Because the results compound each other, Like a Weapon destroyed and another Weapon destroy would result in an Immobilized effect if you have no other weapons. Common sense here.
So would this mean that the Bugg player that assualts as tank pens it twice and glances it once gets to say hmmm...I got 2 pen sixes and 1 glance six. Im going to take the glance because it benefits me the most.
As opposed to the other situation where you Pen twice and glance once a tank near guardsmen, where your pen 6 results are (assume you roll 2d6 and take the higest) 2 and 6 and the 1st roll was a glance six. YOur going to pick the PEN 6 with the distance of a 6, because it beneifits you again?
This seems underhanded to me.
Again I say no...take the rolls one at a time and apply them in order.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 24, 2006 17:03:10 GMT -5
From my perspective this sounds more like bending the rules to keep more of your guys alive because you like to deploy them close to your tanks. I don't know where you're getting the choice idea out of this? If a vehicle gets destroyed and explodes, you gotta deal with both.
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McCommander
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Post by McCommander on Jan 24, 2006 17:04:33 GMT -5
Thankyou Wolflord for looking in the BBB for me.
So then if you fire 3 lascannons at the same time, and you hit three times, you should get three results? Sounds Logical to me.
IW just cause you don't like the rules why should we ignore some of the results? Is this just being Subjective with the ruling?
Wolflord, the reason I mentioned the 2d6 is that if I get say 3 pen 6 results. Roll a d6 for each explosion radius and then assume the largest one is the one that affects the models. However, as you suggest the ruels are vague there is still a concideration that some models could get hit three times?
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 24, 2006 17:42:04 GMT -5
The only advantage I can think of by rolling the die separately is that it allows the player doing the attacking to influence whether or not a vehicle blows up when it gets destroyesd.
If you are attacking a vehicle in h2h you would say "hmm... I don't want this tank to blow up so I'm going to roll my glancing hits first."
If you are shooting it at range you're probably going to want the vehicle to blow up... So you will choose to roll your penetrating hits first.
vs. my interpretation
Well I got 2 pens and 1 glance *roll* two pen 6's and a glancing 6
ok, the vehicle is destroyed and it also explodes. After I apply the first vehicle explodes it is removed from the table preventing me from applying a second one to it.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 24, 2006 17:56:26 GMT -5
What your suggesting, from my perspective, is just as bending the rules as you may see that im doing. (which BTW was never the case) Im just see this is a diffrent light that seems logical. I do not see how someone could blow up a vehicle twice. Once wreck status has been obtained (like after a pen 4-6, a glance 6) the vehicle is no longer elidgable to be assigned results from either table, deducted by simple logic. However some of us, think that a vehicle can be destroyed after being destroyed, by deducing that, infact if you destroy the vehcile you may have other chances to blow the vehicle up BETTER. No where does it say you apply the "best" result, that would imply that since you dont apply the "best" result, the rolls would come in chronolicical order. Applying the first result, the second and then the third if applicable.
dont worry about it, its not worth my time to explian at this point.
Kevin, nothing has been stated to support what your claiming is even valid. I dont "ignore" rules I merely follow them and in some instances there happens to be a poorly written rule which needs interpretation. Itt appears here that some people are trying to bend a rule into a fasion in which the rule was not ment to act. This irks me because there is no way you can agrue against a poorly written rule other than to come to the argument that: There is no rule supporting what you have said, and Since the lack of rule means nothing additional can be done, Therefore youre interpretation is invalid. It can go both ways. Again I go back to You cannot destroy someting that is already destroyed. Rolls are made in order. I stand by that. (Where does it say they are not made in order? Where does it say they are?) Well, ill let someone else chime in for a few. I gotta get back to work.
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McCommander
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Post by McCommander on Jan 24, 2006 18:07:44 GMT -5
Wolflord, you see what i'm talkn' about. The attacker does get to influence the outcome in ways that he shouldn't by rolling one at a time. They should all be rolled at once and then applied seperately.
So by this logic ( all be it subjective)you can destroy a vehicle twice... ie glancing 6 and then pen 6. or more times for that matter! Your right the question is when does it get removed from the table vs. when does it blow up?
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 24, 2006 18:23:48 GMT -5
Huh? Rolling them one at a time and applying the result gives you LESS influence over the outcome, not more.
Rolling the all at once and applying them as you see fit gives you more influence over the outcome.
When a player has influence over the rules is where the game gets shadey and underhanded because some players will take advantage of it.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 24, 2006 18:35:01 GMT -5
rolling all of the dice and applying all of the results is the only fair way to do it.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 24, 2006 18:54:15 GMT -5
I have an answer as to what happens relative to the multiple pen 6 results.
Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned - These results are not cumulative and no further effects happen
Armament destroyed and immobilized - These have specific results when they happen multiple times.
Vehicle destroyed or Vehicle explodes - There are no rules for additional effects from multiple results.
No 2d6 no 2 explosions.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 24, 2006 18:55:53 GMT -5
well taken right from the book...not interpreting it. There ya go. I dont think anymore needs to be said.
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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 24, 2006 19:03:40 GMT -5
One thing... If you really gotta have that 6" explosion... use an ordinance weapon... on a ordinance 6 it's automatic.
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 24, 2006 19:05:37 GMT -5
*grummble grummble* Orville! We are not going to discuss how many ordance in an army is fair again are we?!! lol j/k!
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Post by MajorSoB on Jan 24, 2006 19:34:03 GMT -5
Yeah Orville , we all know ordinance armies are the ultimate crutch armies, we aren't discussing that... ;D
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