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Post by Wolf Lord Snorville on Jan 24, 2006 19:35:58 GMT -5
Ordinance armies plus wolf scouts = dead @ss space wolves.
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Jan 25, 2006 0:02:14 GMT -5
I am pretty sure you dont roll one result at atime and simply stop or pick the best.
All shooting is simo (thats why you have to declare if you shoot your plasma gun and roll it all together)
but i think the system goes
roll to hit roll to penetrate roll the results apply any pertinant results.
so say i get a glancing 4456 and a pen 66 on a Razorback.
thats two weapon destroyed (with rules stating an extra weapon destroyed becomes a imobalised. one imobalized (plus a rule that states the extra gets a vehicle destroyed) a vehicle destroyed a bonus vehicle destroyed (which has no extra rule to say you get any extra benifit for more than one.) and a vehicle explodes A bonus vehicle explodes (once again the extra has no rule saying you get any benifit for more than one.)
apply results destroy the wewpon imobalise the tank destroy it Explode it
Some may be redundant but they still happen
thats my $0.02
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Hagbard The Mighty
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In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Jan 25, 2006 10:01:08 GMT -5
Hmm, i almost hate to say it, but Tom makes a good point. And the most sense...
just one correction - it's 'simul' as in simultaneous, not 'simo'
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Post by dragons3 on Jan 25, 2006 11:12:56 GMT -5
HAGBARD: IT'S SY-MOE, LARRY, & CURLY
SORRY, BAD JOKE
SI-MO IS ACCEPTABLE,
HAVE A NICE DAY!
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McCommander
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Post by McCommander on Jan 25, 2006 11:27:29 GMT -5
Ok, then if you get destroy vehicle which can get upgraded/bonus to explode vehicle 3 inches, why can't that get upgraded to explode vehicle 5 inches?
There are obviously rules for special cases in multipules of the same results, but the lack of specail case rules for multipule explosions doesn't me you ignore the primary rules that say you get a result for each.
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Sanguinary
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Post by Sanguinary on Jan 25, 2006 11:32:52 GMT -5
I would agree with that MC. 2 Pen 6s = 2 rolls for how big the explosion is. Then you only use the highest roll. I have actually seen this happen and played it that way. It does seem like that is within what Tom is saying.
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Hagbard The Mighty
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The cheesiest
In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Jan 25, 2006 12:17:20 GMT -5
I would agree with that MC. 2 Pen 6s = 2 rolls for how big the explosion is. Then you only use the highest roll. I have actually seen this happen and played it that way. It does seem like that is within what Tom is saying. No it isn't. Tom is saying that extra explosions have no further efffect. You simply roll once. What tom is saying is that if both a 'destroyed' and 'exploded' result occurrs you don't just stop at 'destroyed' - you still roll the exploded radius. But any further 'exploded' results are ignored becuase it is all happneing SIMULTANEOUSLY. A vehcile cannot blow up more than once AT THE SAME TIME. The problem is some people want to roll more than once for multpiple explosions becuase the rules don't specifically say you CAN'T. However, the rules don't specifically say you CAN either. Since there are clear rules on what to do with repeat results for weapon destroyed and immobilised, it should be assumed that nothing happens for repeat results where no further rules are stated. Unless the rulebook specifically says what happens in the case of rolling the same result more than once the repeat results should be ignored.
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McCommander
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Post by McCommander on Jan 25, 2006 12:49:34 GMT -5
Why would you take this stance? The rules clearly say that you roll for all your results and apply their effects.
It does then say that in some special cases you can Ignore one of the effects ie multiple shaken, stunned results
It then goes on to say that in another special case there are additional results that happen ie multiple weapon destroyed, immobilized.
All other results that do not have special cases should be applied as normal. ie weapon destroyed and shaken, or two vehicle explodes. These have no special cases to tell us what to do, so we return to the primary rules with say apply effects!
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Post by dragons3 on Jan 25, 2006 13:16:44 GMT -5
IF A VEHICLE GETS 3 DESTROYED & 3 VEHICLE EXPLODES ON IT, FOR EXAMPLE. LOOK AT THIS WAY: 1) A VEHICLE CAN ONLY EXPLODE ONCE. 2) THE 3 DESTROYED VEHICLE HITS AREN'T NECESSARY. 3) SINCE THE VEHICLE CAN ONLY EXPLODE ONCE, THE OTHER EXPLOSIONS HAVE NO FURTHER EFFECT. 4) ROLL 1D6 FOR EXPLOSION RADIUS AND REMOVE VEHICLE. 5) IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN A VEHICLE GETTING A: WEAPON DESTROYED, WEAPON DESTROYED,STUNNED,& VEHICLE EXPLODES, (ONLY THE BIGGEST MATTERS). THAT'S MY OPINION! ;D EVERY BODIES HAPPY THE VEHICLE IS REMOVED OFF THE TABLE, ROLL REQUIRED 4+ FOR WOUNDS & MOVE ON.
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Hagbard The Mighty
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In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Jan 25, 2006 13:35:05 GMT -5
Ok, so you apply the effect of the first explosion, which includes removing the vehicle from the board. Tell me exaclty how is it going to blow up again now that it is no longer on the table?
Or let's say it stays on the table and you have two more 'explosion' results to apply. You would then roll again for the raduis and figure out wounds, and then do it again. You still don't get to roll X d6 (X being the number of explosion results) and take the highest!
Applying more than one explosion result is pointless or overkill. You may ask "Why didn't GW make rules for mutliple explosion results like they did for Shaken, Stunned, Weapon Destroyed and Immobilized?" They probably didn't feel it necessary to do so - YOU BLEW IT UP! What kind of sick, twisted, puppy kicking, victory point hog would need anything more than that??!?!?
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Jan 25, 2006 13:44:04 GMT -5
Wow, Hagbard, you sound like me now. Some else sees where im coming from. Thank you.
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Hagbard The Mighty
Sergeant
The cheesiest
In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
Posts: 223
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Jan 25, 2006 13:45:08 GMT -5
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McCommander
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Post by McCommander on Jan 25, 2006 13:49:23 GMT -5
Dispite all your puppy kicking comments Haggy the problem is that all results are applied "Simo". Not one at a time. There is a strong argument for yes, models could get wounded several times from a vehicle recieving multipule explosion results, but that's not what i'm debating at the moment. I'm simply saying that the single largest explosion size is the one that should be used. As Dragon so nicely put it:
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Hagbard The Mighty
Sergeant
The cheesiest
In 40k if something is off, it can easily be explained in-universe as being because the Warp did it.
Posts: 223
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Post by Hagbard The Mighty on Jan 25, 2006 14:22:28 GMT -5
Your own logic works against you...
You roll the dice, determine the results and apply them simultaneously. That we all seem to agree on.
The part that differs is how we interpret "apply results".
Your logic says apply the results for each hit individually - so, 3 explosions would require three separate radius rolls. It's not a case of the biggest one mattering the most. Models in the smaller radius's have a chance of being hit more than once!
My logic says determine the results and apply them collectively, as tom stated before. Once the vehicle explodes you have already applied the effect for any remaining explosion results that need to be applied. They are moot and unnecessary. Roll the radius once and move on. the same would apply to multiple 'destroyed but not exploded' results - once the first result has been applied you have already applied the effect for any remaining results.
QED
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McCommander
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Post by McCommander on Jan 25, 2006 14:48:27 GMT -5
Haggy, that post is not an argument it simply restates the two of our points of view.
I have no issue with apply all the explosions results collectively (ie one explosion/ models hit only once. I'm not going to argue that point). However explosions have a bonus feature to them that must be considered individually to determine the most relevant result. In this case the largest explosion radius possible.
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