comp for March

[boldo]

Hey I would like some imput on comp like what items or special characters am I missing and what you think about the general checklist.

Boldo

A comp system will be used. We feel this should be viewed as a handicap as not all armies were created equal. Players should not be discourage if their army is not a perfect comp army as that is very hard and creates fairly poor armies. Armies will be scored using the following checklist. You receive 1 points for each item you check.
1 less than 25% characters.
2 less than 15% characters.
3 No Lord.
4 Less than 11 casting or 7 dispel.
5 less than 8 casting or 5 dispel.
6 less than 5% magic items.
7 3 core units of 2x minimum size not including missile armed infantry.
8 No unit which causes terror.
9 Only one unit which causes terror.
10 No more than 2 skirmishing units not counting characters or warmachines
11 No more than 2 Cavalry units not counting characters
12 No more than 2 artillery choices.
13 No more than 2 chariots.
14 No more than 2 special choices.
15 No more than 2 shooting units not counting artillery.
16 No more than 1 flier.
17 No more than 2 units of the same name armed the same.
18 No more than 2 units not counting characters or artillery worth less than 100 points.
19 No more than 3 units which can strike at S5 or greater on the turn they charge excluding characters and champions.
20 No more than 1 rare choices.
21 Two or fewer characters who can strike at S6 or greater on the charge.
22 More than 50% core
23 Fewer than 3 units less than 1.5x minimum size not counting units without option for more models.
24 Fewer than 11 possible deployments counting scouts.
25 No dupicates of special or rare units.
Take a deduction of -1 for each of the following items in your army. War Altar
dragon
Staff of change
greater demon
Special Character
Thorek Ironbrow (-2)
Caradryan
Karl Franz
hellheart
banner of battle
second generation slaan
anvil of doom
rune of stromni redbeard
Banner of the lady of the lake
Power stone after the first
book of arkhan
Dispel scroll or rune of spell breaking after the first
Huanchi's blessed totem
charm of the Jaguar warrior
Hail of doom arrow
Annoyance of Netlings
Icon of Rakaph

[johnboo]

Add beastman special characters Khazrak the One Eye and Morghur.

At first pass 2 of the 3 core HE units are shooting units so only spearelves will count for #7, then get hit for #17. -1 for taking core infantry! Fantastic!

[boldo]

What about Teclis or any of the Orc characters? Are all of these okayish.

Boldo

[MallSecurity]

The whole Irresistible force on an any doubles makes me wary of Teclis – but I have not played against him to verify that

[ccourtney]

I guess I have to ask why the -1 for the Hail of doom arrow and the Annoyance of Netlings? (besides the obvious reason that Boldo hates wood elves?...wich I've come to embrace and enjoy)

I guess it just gets me that I get -1 comp for taking a 1 shot magic item on a character that cost me 190 points (noble, wildrider Kindred, Stag, +HOD Arrow) When I could take a 16 man Glade Guard Unit for the same price and fire 16 arrows a round instead? I've heard the argument that the HOD arrow can make a light armored unit "go away" but I wonder why I get -1 in comp for that, but the guy with the Screaming Skull catapults that shoot 2 times a round (just incase the cheese-ball misses the first time on his guess) for the whole game and waste my 285pt treeman with no saves doesn't get a -1 in comp?
Whats up with that?

As far as the Annoyance I could see how it could be abused by a player putting it on a nasty HTH character. Is it so wrong that I put it on my BSB to try and keep the 1 banner in my army alive? Does that use deserve a -1 in comp?

I have to ask why the -2 points for 25% in characters also? I understand when these characters are crazy lords running around on dragons. But is my lvl 4 chick on a Unicorn cause for a -2 in comp? (cause she is not worth the 415 points I pay for her!)
...on top of that I have to watch out for item 21 now cause that devastating unicorn strikes at strength 6 on the charge....watch out! I think 99% of fantasy players will tell you that the less points you spend on characters (to a point) and the more points you spend on core the stronger your army will be, so why the minus in comp for non-over the top characters?

Guess I'm just a little discouraged finish painting my wood elves (which I am doing anyway just to come mess with you fantasy punks) knowing that my army scores a 8 out of 25 on this comp list?

I think that fantasy suffers the same fate as 40K in that comp rubics need to be made with massive detail and exceptions to every rule to work.

[MallSecurity]

I believe the typical Comp Score last year was around 16-18 (out of the 25 main points). So it is somewhat expected that you will fail 7 or so of these; perfect comp should be almost impossible to get. And the army that gets it should suck - and suck alot.

Is the Lvl 4 on unicorn bad? not really.

How about the BSB with Annoyance of Netlings? or the Lord/Hero with the HoDA? None of these are too bad on their own - but is a WE army that has all three better than one that doesn't have any of them? Yes - and that is somewhat the point. This Comp system is more a Handicap system than anything else.

I admit some armies are harder to get a good score on this this list than others, but that's almost unavoidable in any Metric-based comp system. Are Brets going to have problems meeting points 11 and 19? Of Course - just the typical Empire list will have problems with 15 and 12.; And Skaven with 18 and 24.

Overall, I think Fantasy is easier to 'Metric' judge than 40k - with a few tweaks here and there your army should score well on the list.

Not sure if I made any sense at all - but there it is

[boldo]

Wow Chris I think there are a few things wrong with your arguement. First the Hail of Doom Arrows is only 30pts and improves the lords one shot bow to a one round 3d6 dow with additional Strength. On average this is 11 S4 shots which hit on a 2. For the 30 pts you can get roughly 2 glade guads which shoot an entire game and hit worse and are half the time at lower strength. Seems right. Plus it is an always take item for most Wood elves. It is hard to defend the annoyance of nettlings. It defends characters well but is brutal on the treeman ancient, or lord with harp just to name a few. As for the Chick on Unicorn you underestimate the hit you take for her as she is a special character, who hits at ST6 on the charge, a lord, and a lvl 4 mage. Unusually I do not allow special characters and the Indies go about 50-50 on this so I thought this time I would but I would hit it for comp as many special characters are a bit undercosted. Also try her a lvl 2 and 2 magic using branchwraiths. That army is a magical nightmare. You might have taken a fiarish version of her but the system must penalize the ability to abuse even if you refuse to do so. Finally take more troops and your score will go up. I think an army should have a fair number of models in it. It always seems odd to me that the Lord level character and his 3 buddies are out fighting a campaign with 30 troops. My stystem is hoping you take the glade guard over the hail of doom arrows and I admit this is just my bias.

Boldo

[ccourtney]

Um ok I guess I must be stupid or something but:

First the Hail of Doom Arrows is only 30pts and improves the lords one shot bow to a one round 3d6 dow with additional Strength. On average this is 11 S4 shots which hit on a 2. For the 30 pts you can get roughly 2 glade guads which shoot an entire game and hit worse and are half the time at lower strength.

Don't see how my math is wrong: The cheapest you could make this guy is 105 points (lord 75 +HOD) thats equal to about 9 glade guard? thats 54 shots hitting on 3s?....lets see thats 27 str 3 (and possibly some str 4) Hits. All this assuming you made him as dirt cheap as possible. Taking this guy would also add to your % in characters, meaning your really taking a -2 or -3 in comp for doing so.

Plus it is an always take item for most Wood elves

Seems to me every army has a unit or item like that? when you sit down to play and your opponent tells you what race he is playing there is always at least 1 really good unit your 99% sure he is going to put down. Lets find all those and put them on the -1 comp list

It is hard to defend the annoyance of nettlings. It defends characters well but is brutal on the treeman ancient, or lord with harp just to name a few

I don't do this but still suffer the -1 in comp?

As for the Chick on Unicorn you underestimate the hit you take for her as she is a special character

How is she a special character? Spellweaver with Glamourweave Kindred and a unicorn? It's not like she is Drycha or orion?

Unusually I do not allow special characters and the Indies go about 50-50

No tournament would stop you from taking a lord on a mount would they?

Eh, I'm sure I won't win any arguments on the fantasy side here as I barely know what I'm talking about in this game. I just know I could make a great comp scoring army to fit this comp system, but it would be boring and repetative...it would also be a lot stronger army and win more games than mine.

[ccourtney]

Highborn: Rymers harp and Annoyance of Nettlings
Noble: BSB with Elynetts brooch
Branchwaith, lvl 1
Spellsinger lvl 2

2 units of 12 dryads

96 man unit of eternal guard: With charaters attached this unit is stubborn LD 10, rerolls psych tests, and has the BSB reroll in it.

I've heard all you complain about how cheesy this army is.

Scores a 20 in comp, my army gets an 8?

Order me up 10 boxes of eternal guard I need to get my comp score up! (please don't)

[Iron Warrior]

Chris why do you bother with square bases?

[ccourtney]

Chris why do you bother with square bases?

As always, you are wise beyond your years Iron Warrior.

[boldo]

Chris you know as well as I that the character has utility beyond the hail of doom arrow. After you shoot it you still have the character. Sure there are a lot of always take units but this is a magic item and you have a choice of some 100 or so options and this always gets taken. It must tell you something. Sorry about the unicorn chick I thought she was a special character. As for the rest this is a comp checklist and it will penalize the fun use of a broken item sorry it just will. That is a casualty of checklists. But after the tournament people will not female dog about home cooking, complain about their comp score or whin as much about not winning. Sure you hit the nail on the head with a decent army about the eternal guard army but I would love to play this. I think it is a fairly easy game and most people would not female dog about having to play it. Sure it is not a flavorful as your elves and beasts army with lots of variety but put up your list and let me see why you score an 8 as perhaps I am fine with it and perhaps not.

Boldo

[MallSecurity]

ironwarrior said:

Chris why do you bother with square bases?

Does the 40k Tourny have a comp system yet?

[Norton]

40k? Comp? MWahahahahahah

[MajorSoB]

mallsecurity said:

ironwarrior said:

Chris why do you bother with square bases?

Does the 40k Tourny have a comp system yet?

It doesn't have a hard martix like this rather will have some guidelines as to what I will be looking to see. It worked well in Syracuse for Assault Phase 07 and I am sure I can do an equally respectable job.

If you think a good hard matrix can be written, by all means start writing! ;D